Interfering dad causing hell

[Grubsmummy]

My dad is 70,he is a very controlling, opinionated person, a narcissist, everyone is wrong about everything, he is right.

I am mid 30s, married with 2 young kids, been with my husband for 17 years. I left home at 21 as couldn't bare to be with my dad any longer and me and oh rented a place.

Dad started to interfere and put pressure on us and 10 years ago, my husband and I ended up making (almost forced to) a rediculous, stupid decision to accept my dad's offer of buying us a home and us paying him reduced rent when i had the children . This sounds amazing, and i realise we are exceptionally lucky to have security in our home, but it was basically forced upon us. We should never ever have done it and i regret it every day.
At every opportunity my dad likes to bring up that we pay him a low rent, he doesn't think we should ever buy anything, go on holiday, have pets, decorate, anything we spend should be offered to him as extra rent. I feel like we can't live at all. We live very frugally, low priced food, buy clothes from charity shops, all our furniture is 2nd hand, old cars etc.

Im reaching the end of my tether now, ideally I want to go no contact with him for many many reasons, (my sister has already for the past 3 years) but can't because my poor mother would see noone and wouldn't see her grandkids. I want to sell up, give him the money back and break free, preferably in another part of the country but we can't because we are trapped by large outgoings. We don't have a spare penny to even afford the lowest rents or mortgages anywhere.

What the hell can we do to change this situation. We live 2 miles away from them so they watch over us with a magnifying glass. I'm concerned that he will start doing this with my kids when they are teens and start forcing cars and houses on them that come with conditions.
I know we are lucky and I am grateful but that doesn't mean we should have to live like this does it? Noone ever dares to say anything to him :-(

He won't let me sell up and use any of the equity

He can’t stop you if the house is in his name, legally you could just stop paying him back, sell up, keep the money and buggar off and never speak to him again, it’s only your own conscience stopping you.

You’re the one with all the power in this relationship and somehow he’s managed to convince you it’s the other way around.

*your name not his name

If you're desperately unhappy, you need to change the situation. He is not going to change. It sounds like when you are working you should be able to rent your own smaller place so then either sell or rent your house out.

We can all sympathise about how awful it to offer a gift and then use it to batter the recipient for years. It's truly shitty behaviour but we can't find a magic wand to change your Father.

I would not give the money back after selling the house BTW. I'd use it to buy a manageable one, pay off the loans taken out to repair the other one, and anything left over give it back.

The OP's father has gotten off for years on making her feel like shit. Now is the time to stand up for herself.

How can he stop you selling up if it's your house? He can't stop you? Your house in your name.
Why do you think you are paying him rent? You are not, you are repaying a loan.

He won't let me sell up and use any of the equity

You state, he gave you all the money to buy the house. It's in your name.
Therefore you can do what you want with it.
You would know if he has a charge on it, so I guess he doesn't.
Even if he does have a charge, he cannot stop you selling a house he doesn't own.
Either tell him to fuck off and stop harassing you about money and mean it and go no contact if he doesn't listen, or accept he won't change so you have to.

We do not have enough income right to save a deposit or qualify for a mortgage or pay rent. We are brassic

You sell the house, pay him the money you still owe him, and with the remainder you have a sizeable deposit for a smaller house.

Your partner earns £2000 a month and you're soon going back to work to earn....I forget, was it £600-£800?

You are not brassic.

I just don't think you want to move from your present house, even though you don't seem to be able to afford to live there.

I agree with Mrs Koala to rent it out and pay your father back. Maybe then think about moving away for a few years at least where you can earn a bit more and build up your savings. It would also move you away from his daily interference in your life.

As PPs have said, he's not going to change. Narcissists just don't.

Not pay your father the full amount, just a bit more than you are at the moment from the rental income.

He won't let me sell up and use any of the equity

It's got nothing to do with him if, as you've said, you own the house outright.

I don’t see how he could stop you.

He won't let me sell up and use any of the equity
He can't stop you!

All this 'can't', 'won't', defeatest thinking is your conditioned response which he's taught you so you see him as more powerful.
He's not - and especially not when the house is in your name!

You know he's going to 'fall out' with you in some way no matter what you do - but you can't control his actions.
His interfering, control and general foulness will still continue long after you sell/set stronger boundaries.
Selling would only give him one less thing to throw back at you (kind of), so you still need to find a way to be more assertive/go lower contact.

This is, by the way, the way in which my FIL would have behaved if we'd ever borrowed from him. He's actually an extremely nice man but he grew up during the war, feels people have their priorities all wrong nowadays and would find it impossible to understand that a holiday or new furniture would come before repaying anyone who had given them money.

He won't let me sell up and use any of the equity

In what way won't he 'let' you?

If you sell up and return the initial cash loan with strings 'gift' (minus what already paid for) I think your concience can be totally clear.

In what way can he 'not let' or prevent you from then using the equity to buy or rent a more affordable place?

He won't let me sell up and use any of the equity

I'm asking in all sincerity, not being goady. How can he legally stop you? The house is in your name. I assume he doesn't have a 'lien' against the house. So if you sold it, it would be your decision as to what to do with the equity. And unless I've mistaken the situation there is nothing in writing saying that you have to pay him back in a lump sum if you do sell. He may want that, but as my dear late MiL used to say "Want in one hand, shit in the other and see which one gets filled first". Sure, he'll squawk and bellow. Remember that 'the dog barks, but the caravan passes on'. Let your caravan, your life, pass on.

So theoretically you could sell and hopefully realize enough equity to pay cash for a smaller place, and continue to pay your dad's 'loan' off. Because you don't want to get off the property ladder if you can at all avoid it.

I think the thing you don't realize is how 'in thrall' you are to your dad. You have been conditioned by him to involuntarily think 'what'll dad do/say' before you make a decision. Yes, it bothers you and angers you when he spouts off. And yes, occasionally you push back. BUT the subconscious 'fear' is still there, colouring your thinking and controlling your decision-making. You need to break that chain. Counseling will help, you should look into it.

Why does your sister have no contact with him? Is he planning on leaving any of his estate to her when he has gone? (You said earlier it is going to you).

I don’t see how he can stop you selling?

If you sell, keep your 53k share, and buy a 3 bed semi for 140k you’ll only have an 87k mortgage. That’s easily affordable on a 2k a month salary. And you should start to feel more comfortable financially.

It’ll be hard to tell him, but I don’t think you’ve got another option really.

I feel for you op. It is very hard to stand up to someone like your father. Especially when he’s your father and this is all you have known. I know from experience. I also completely understand why you accepted his offer. Somehow you need to break the hold he has over you and your family. I think If you don’t this is going to be very detrimental to your relationship with your husband.

You need a long discussion with your DH to find a way out of this, because that is what you need a way out. I personally think you will need to sell the house and find a way to live independent from your fathers financial help. Standing up to a man like this is not easy, but I think it’s the only way forward.

You are a grown woman and no one can stop you selling your own house and moving to a house of your choice, that you can afford.

My dad is exactly like this, btw. When I was growing up, he’d always make ridiculously generous offers, but then hit me over the head with them 20 times over. Or suddenly change the terms so I never knew where I stood. And of course I was so ungrateful if I ever moaned about any of that. I even had the exact same arguement about a car; when I refused to get the specific car from the specific dealer that he’d decided I should have, he threw a fit and I was in the dog house for months, every time he’d given me anything brought up and thrown in my face to show how ungrateful I was. I eventually moved away and stopped accepting his ‘gifts’, when I was 23. Now it’s 20 years later and I still see him and talk to him, and our relationship is much simpler and easier.

OP, as everyone is saying, he cannot stop you from selling it. He gave you the money, the house is in your name.

You cannot afford to run this house. It is all very well him insisting on a 5 bed, but you cannot afford the running costs.

He might moan about it, but he actually cannot stop you if it is in your name! He pushed you into buying something that you can't afford to run or maintain. Your outgoings are high due to loans. If you sell the house, repay the loans and buy something smaller, you will be happier hopefully.

You then need to agree a market rent with him, if he wants the money repaid, so get an estimate from the EA that you buy it from and give that amount each month to your father. However........ if you are paying market rent, then you shouldn't be liable for repairs, but of course you will be because you own the house.......

He should be taking that into account now really, that you are paying a reduced rent, but are repaying a loan for maintenance repairs.

He won't let you?

Are you 11?

Time to stand up to him. Or keep the status quo.

There is a generational thing going on here as someone else said. We borrowed from my FIL. We did without any luxuries until we had repaid every penny. He never said a word in criticism but we knew his mindset re: his generation the war and all. He thought a mortgage was a bad thing lol.

My adult married kids on the other hand do enjoy holidays, new cars. But as parents they work hard to earn their money and imo. need a break. The older generation the woman gave up work upon marriage, pregnancy. It is so different now. Juggling work, childcare, and a home nearly did us in a few times. Deciding who would stay home with a sick child etc. is not easy.

They never had the fear of losing a job in the same way as todays generation do. The pace of life was so much slower.

Also I think it’s very telling that at the start of the thread you said you couldn’t afford to move, but it’s clear you can - just not to a large 5 bed

There are so many discrepancies re wants needs money earned money owed, that I no longer buy this story.

I think OP can't stand how her dad is (understandably) so needs a vent, but actually doesn't want to move out of a nice big house. Even though she looks to be spending beyond her means which is having an impact on paying bills and debts.

& Won't go no contact like her sister, because she already knows she'll inherit from dad and doesn't want to jeopardise that.

Fair enough - but 100 posters can say sell the house or rent it out, if it's not what OP wants then it makes no difference.

It's the price you pay sometimes, when "things" matter. Trick is to find a way to minimise disruption of your life based on this, and that's where the focus should be.

In this case OP and H have to present a united front and tell dad not to interfere, and/or be less available and accessible to him. Unless he's knocking on the door every day then this at least should be in some way achievable.

As well as that, get a handle on the spending. Draw up a budget, get debt advice etc. H earns £2000 monthly, OP is going back to work. So not "brassic". It may just amount to cutting down on some outgoings.

"There is no repayment agreement at all. Just verbally agreed between us. We could stop at any time and i don't think there's anything he could do"

The verbal agreement stands, legally. You've acknowledged that you owe the money, because you've been paying it back. So from a legal POV it's a private loan agreement. Nothing more. (I watch a lot of Judge Rinder ).

The issue is how to get free of his control, mentally. Then start the vernal challenges.

The real problem is how you could manage a relationship with your Mother whilst untangling yourself from him.

Like yourselves, no doubt your Mother is worn down and brain washed by him.

Do you have conversations with her about everything?