Interfering dad causing hell

[Grubsmummy]

My dad is 70,he is a very controlling, opinionated person, a narcissist, everyone is wrong about everything, he is right.

I am mid 30s, married with 2 young kids, been with my husband for 17 years. I left home at 21 as couldn't bare to be with my dad any longer and me and oh rented a place.

Dad started to interfere and put pressure on us and 10 years ago, my husband and I ended up making (almost forced to) a rediculous, stupid decision to accept my dad's offer of buying us a home and us paying him reduced rent when i had the children . This sounds amazing, and i realise we are exceptionally lucky to have security in our home, but it was basically forced upon us. We should never ever have done it and i regret it every day.
At every opportunity my dad likes to bring up that we pay him a low rent, he doesn't think we should ever buy anything, go on holiday, have pets, decorate, anything we spend should be offered to him as extra rent. I feel like we can't live at all. We live very frugally, low priced food, buy clothes from charity shops, all our furniture is 2nd hand, old cars etc.

Im reaching the end of my tether now, ideally I want to go no contact with him for many many reasons, (my sister has already for the past 3 years) but can't because my poor mother would see noone and wouldn't see her grandkids. I want to sell up, give him the money back and break free, preferably in another part of the country but we can't because we are trapped by large outgoings. We don't have a spare penny to even afford the lowest rents or mortgages anywhere.

What the hell can we do to change this situation. We live 2 miles away from them so they watch over us with a magnifying glass. I'm concerned that he will start doing this with my kids when they are teens and start forcing cars and houses on them that come with conditions.
I know we are lucky and I am grateful but that doesn't mean we should have to live like this does it? Noone ever dares to say anything to him :-(

OP is getting a bit of a hard time, I think. Worth considering the influence of 30+ years of being patented by an overly involved narcissist. ‘Just’ selling up and downsizing probably feels huge and impossible - and there’s no guarantee the dad would even accept the money back, or would dispute the amount (wanting the profits too) as strategies to retain control.

I agree that OP needs to get a smaller place within her means so she and the family can have some disposable income. How feasible this is within the current dynamic is another question.

We don't have sky, we don't have phone contracts, we don't have 2 cars, we don't have netflix, we don't have new things ever, we don't use tradesmen unless essential, my husband does the DIY himself.

Our council tax is £250 a month.
Gas is £100 a month
Elec is £100 a month. (I used to work for a utility company so know about cheap tariffs etc)
Water rates are £60 a month
House insurance £20 a month
Then tv licence, car insurance and tax, aa membership, partners Union membership
It all rapidly adds up.

To the people with the opinion I like my large house that I was pushed into, why would I like to be struggling financially? Did you not read my previous comments saying I want to downsize and pay for ourselves?

I DON'T WANT ANY OF THIS, I WANT A HAPPY FAMILY AND TO BE COMFORTABLE FINANCIALLY

Not sure why you are getting such a hard time OP. Your father is clearly incredibly controlling, he pushed to buy the house, a very expensive house to run and uses it as a means of control. You are in debt just to keep up with the repairs on the roof and the boiler. This doesn’t actually sound like a great situation for you. I would see the house and look into the legal situation. If he gifted to you then I would sell it. Move somewhere else and be happy. You mum has to make her own decisions to be happy.

Juells... don't forget they have also paid for a new roof for the property.

"Did you not read my previous comments saying I want to downsize and pay for ourselves? "

So do it!

I understand Op being pushed into this by her dad-but where is her husband in all of this?

what is the legal side - if it was a gift, you can just sell the house and move somewhere you can afford to run?

As previously put. You have to reduce your outgoings. To upkee a 5 bedroom house is hard work and very expensive. We live in a 6! So understand. But our outgoings are half yours. And yes. To answer your original question. If you continue to live in this house. It won’t get any better. Unless you either buy him out. Or move out

No you don’t have to put up with it at all. But unless you categorically say something to him. He won’t get any better. Move out if you really don’t want to put up with it. Simple as. You said you’d rather no contact. So do it. Move out. You can easily reduce your outgoings enough to afford rent. And with your job. That’s going to be very easy as you said so yourself.

talk to your Dad, you obviously think a lot of him and believe he has done this out of love for you. Tell him you feel like he is interfering etc and he might step back. If he blows up then you have to make another decision for your immediate family. Good luck.

Switch gas companies. I live in a bigger house. In the south east. And pay half that....house insurance. Also. Shop around. Our council tax is the same. Can’t do much about that.

There are also ways to save on your water bill. Ours is cheaper than yours.

On top of that. Car insurance and tax. Should t be much more. Tv is £12 a month.

Grubsmummy, you actually sound a bit spoilt, like you don't know how other people actually live.

You live in a HUGE house, and it's expensive to run, I get that. But your rent is less than a 2 bedroom council flat!

Rents start at £500 in you area - that's cheap. If you and your partner do 50 hours a week between you on the minimum wage, you could pull in about £1500 a month. This covers rent at £500, council tax at £120, food at £400, gas and electric at £100 each. People in this situation, low waged renters, do not have cars on hire purchase agreements, they buy them out of the paper or Gumtree.. They do not get loans for boilers, the landlord fixes them. They do not have holidays.

You have loans you need to pay back, yes, but your husband has £2000 a month.

YOu can afford to sell up, move out, pay your dad back and either rent or put a deposit on somewhere a lot smaller that your dad has never, ever had anything to do with. You CAN afford it. But you will not be as comfortable as you are now.

Juells... don't forget they have also paid for a new roof for the property.

The £350 a month they're paying for roof and boiler is still less than rent. She could talk to her father - he seems to want the best for her, even if he is controlling - and ask about buying a smaller property. With lower outgoings they might be able to manage their finances better. With two small children a three-bed should be big enough, and be cheaper to run.

I do think though that if they do that, any increase in value should be given back to the father, along with any difference in price between the original £250,000 and what a smaller property costs. That would mollify him. Then draw up boundaries.

I don't know why people keep saying you can't afford to live where you are. You're paying the amount your father asked for, repaying the loans for your essential household maintenance, paying all bills and car repayments and keeping your children fed and clothed. You can afford all your outgoings, if you couldn't you'd have had debt collectors rock up by now. Just practise saying no to your Dad. He gave you a gift and asked for £200/month, which he is getting. End of.

@madmum5811

If it's a gift, then no the siblings don't 'get a share' when he dies, as it's a gift to the OP.

However, as the OP is 'paying it back' it seems to be a loan, which means it's still owned by the father (the money, not the house).

If (when the DF dies) the estate is over the IHT threshold, which it may not be and him possibly having a surviving spouse makes a difference too), then the estate pays inheritance tax NOT the people the gift was made to.

If it was a loan, then the estate must reclaim the loan (if the mother survives him, she can just continue the loan, or make a gift of it, etc) depending on how the will was written.

It's nowhere near as simple as "ooh, you'll have to pay tax on that, hee hee" as you see to keep trying to throw in.

Sell up, pay your dad back, get a mortgage and buy or rent.

Or stay where you are and get a lodger.

You say you we're prepared to pay more than £200 per month but he insisted. So have you been saving the difference? Could you put that lump sum to paying off one of the loans?

Have you looked on moneysavingexpert as previous posters have suggested and do a proper analysis of your outgoings. Every play group fee, every haircut, every penny?

I'm honestly astounded that with an income of £2000 and 'rent' of £200 you are struggling. And I guess that your DF is too - which may be behind the digs and comments.

Nah no sympathy. You make the choice to continue living in your 5 bedroom house for £200 a month. You enjoy reaping the benefits and you knew what he was like but you made your choice anyway. So live with it or end it - again, totally your choice.

Van Gogh I am not hee heeing as you put it. Having spent two years setting up a complicated family trust. The accountant and solicitor had so many concerns it took a lot more time than expected. Tax rules can change at any time and did during the process. So no I do not find it amusing but am seeking to protect the OP from any future fall outs.

Thank you very much everyone for your comments.

I was only 23 when all this started and we both worked full time then and could have afforded to get our own place, and should have done.
I had spent my whole life under his control, finding it impossible to say no to him. It has taken me until now to feel strong enough to push back.

I have never been spoilt, Ive never been materialistic or wasted money on silly things. My husband works very hard for us and feels completely pushed out by my father and belittled. There is much more to it than I've written here.

I will get financial advice regarding the future, I will be more upfront with my father, and we will look to downsize if possible when I'm earning.
Thanks again

You could investigate taking out a small mortgage on your property and use if to pay off your loans. You’ll have much more money every month. You don’t have to tell your father, you have no obligation to do so.

You could also try to take in a lodger, offer digs to college students /contractors or air bnb any surplus rooms.

You can then save all your salary when you go back to work, bank it in your moving fund.

I want to downsize and pay for ourselves?

Do then.

Tell your dad 'thanks for the loan of £250k, we're going to sell the house and pay you the balance back, then we'll move somewhere else. Love you!'. Hopefully the new roof and boiler means that you'll sell easily enough.

I doubt you'll have a better relationship with him but it's fair to say he probably does think you struggle with money which brings out the worst in him. But you can only try.

You'll have to get used to a much smaller house, of course, and higher outgoings, but you can probably pay off a couple of loans with the equity as well as your deposit.

Right, you can take off the price of the roof and boiler repairs from what you "owe" to your father as it is effectively improving the property.

I'd suggest you then say to him that you can't afford to live in the current house and you are therefore going to downsize but continue paying him, possibly at a slightly higher rate if you can afford it. If the house is in your names he can't stop you selling it and doing what you like with the proceeds. Make sure the house you downsize to is quite a lot further away, and consider blocking him so he can't carry on whinging at you.

're inheritance tax I fear that the house will still be in your father's estate even if seven years have passed because he has 'reserved a benefit' by taking payments from you. This is a complicated area of law so I would very, very strongly suggest that you and your father both need to take solicitors' advice asap.

I had spent my whole life under his control, finding it impossible to say no to him. It has taken me until now to feel strong enough to push back.

Mine is the same, I know how you feel. He used to use finances to control me but he can't any more, you need to distance yourself.

OK, so.. you need to read and learn about narcisists. THis sounds like a similar situation to my own father. My brother and sister are in his full grips, I have gone NC since a few years ago, but ran away from home at 18.

First off- in your head, stop letting him abuse you. So he paid some cash he had to help you... it hasn't helped since you are paying rent not a mortgage, so if you sell you get nothing. He could tart the place up if he wants to be a landlord.....

I'd say please yourself. If mom wants to come over then let her, you know they are called enablers and are codependent. Does she scurry about, be interrupted and is barked out? I wish you to be free, at least in your mind and not feel owned by him. Zariya Lufu has a Home for Restoring love on FB.

My friends dad is like this

He won’t change

Neither will your father

Sell or don’t sell - he will still interfere about everything