Am I scarring my child for life

[BettyBoo246]

My 5 year old ds has recently started getting out of bed at night. It all began when he saw a scary Panto which we have now overcome but it now ranges from not wanting to be on his own to being scared of the dark. He’ll get up around 10-20 times a night. And it’s never a peaceful affair, he starts crying and screaming, which makes me start crying and screaming sad I am making things 10 tens worse and I don’t know what else to do, I say some horrible things that probably just make him feel even more scared and unsafe, things like he’lol have to go and leave at grandmas or daddy can’t leave here anymore as he keeps waking him (dh has to go work at 4am) I really have tried being nice, talking about his worries and reassuring him but after a few nights it all reverts back to this horrible screaming at each other. I hate that he sees me like that and last night I was crying again pleading with him to stay in bed, he told me to stop crying for god sake and he wanted his real mummy back sad I am heartbroken and desperate for help. I do have an 8 week old dd so I do believe this and starting year 1 at school is all contributing to his anxieties/insecurities, I just feel out of my depth. I have posted this in sleep section too as I just don’t know where to turn to for help

Do you have motor-on, or football groups there? Or even look at something called 'sensory diet'

Thanks for the replies. unfortunately the last couple of nights have gotten worse. I’m seriously considering paying privately to see a children’s counsellor. He literally had 2 hours sleep last night and went to school this morning looking absolutely drained, other mums even remarked how he looked poorly

In your circumstance I would pay for the private counsellor, if I feel shitty on that amount of sleep I can't imagine how he must feel :(

It sounds miserable - do you think he’s trying to get more time with you? I know my dd does things like invent problems at bedtime or in the morning as she wants more time and complains about the preschool one getting more time. She’s 8 and she can’t really emotionally understand at her age that she had the time when she was the same age.

Re your mum is if she can take the baby for a few hours instead so you and ds can do things.

It does seem to me that the sibling has put him into a tail spin, my dd found it a massive shock to her system and even 4 years later it’s still something we have to watch and have special individual time with each of them.

I’d try every avenue open, if you can pay for a private counselloe that’s good although finding the right person is hard. There was a nursery nurse attached to my HV office for sleep help, don’t suppose you have anything like that?

Thanks stopwoofing I did have an appointment with the school nurse this morning but it got cancelled I keep searching the internet for child therapist/counsellor but it’s iust so hard to know which one to contact or if they will see it as an actual problem or just tell me it’s a phase that they all go through! Family doctor can’t see us till middle of feb either. I try so hard to make sure me and him have just us time and spend at least an hour with him at bed. Every night he changes what he’s scared of, wolves, burglars, the dark the list is endless and says he doesn’t want to sleep as he doesn’t want to dream.
I’m trying so hard to get help from professionals but can’t seem to get anywhere x

which makes me start crying and screaming sad I am making things 10 tens worse and I don’t know what else to do

Couldn't get past this part, perhaps you should stop crying and screaming, because you know, you are a grown adult!

I know drogos I’m just finding it really hard

Bit your reaction is making it worse for everyone. No one's getting any sleep with you shouting and screaming aswell. You need to be the one in control and keep things calm in the middle of the night. Even if that means jumping in his bed until he goes back to sleep so he feels safe and everyone gets a bit of peace.

We had similar. Consistent and firm no to bed eventually did the trick.

Perhaps the first thing you need to do, is just get some sleep, whatever it takes.
Can you all be in together, and DH sleep somewhere else? Go to bed when he does etc, you'll be there when he wakes, you will both get more sleep. Hopefully if baby wakes in the night you can deal with her quietly.
Once you both have got some sleep you will feel more able to deal with it, and he will cope better with school. Then by half term you might have the energy to start to work on some behaviour & routine again?
For me I know that when I was exhausted, I could just never stick to anything. And I would end up shouting and crying too. So getting some sleep hours is the priority!

I know I just feel like I’ve lost control that’s the problem I feel out of my depth and at a complete loss. I am hoping to hear back from a counsellor from Relate today (for me not ds)I don’t have many friends/family I can talk to so hopefully they will be able to help me

I would co sleep with him and pit she in his room to break the habit and teach him to trust sleep again x

Sorry put husband

Oh my goodness. My first thought was - what? A grown up crying and screaming at a five year old? This is just not on. He must be terrified seeing you like this and it’s really going to up his anxiety, make him feel thoroughly unsafe and insecure on top of having a new baby, which must have turned his world upside down anyway.
But, you are clearly under much stress and know that this cannot continue. It mustn’t. Your child is scared. Make sure he isn’t. Whatever it takes. If he needs to sleep in your room so be it. If your DH needs to move out the bed so he can share a bed with you, so be it. Or, if your husband needs to put a mattress in your sons room and sleep in there, so be it. So he has to go to work in the morning, so what. Between the two of you, you need to ensure your DS feels secure. End of. My DH has to get up early too. We still shared in the night wake ups.

Do NOT take a stern approach with him please. His mum has changed already to him, because of the baby. Now instead of making him feel better, you are screaming at him - he can’t understand your stress, it’s not right that he should.

A friend once said to me about her mum when she was going through a hard time. “She always makes me feel better”. So this is what you need to do. In this scenario, you, your feelings, your husband, his feelings - for now, they’re actually not important, your DS is though. He needs to know if he is scared, if he is anxious, you will make him feel better.

We did try co sleeping but it does seem to make ds even more awake if that’s possible. He just wants to talk or mess around all night and when the baby wakes because she has silent reflux feeding it’s hard to keep her quiet even if ds has managed to dropped sleep. I think his mind and body is so use to waking up through the night now it’s going to be hard cycle to break.

Thank you ellie that makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes it just feels like the nicer I am to him when he wakes up the more he actually gets up. And I feel like I’m saying it’s ok for you to keep waking up and getting out of bed?

My daughter was like this until about 6. She went to sleep in her own bed but was sometimes asleep in mine before I even went to bed. Night terrors I was told but in reality I think she mostly just preferred to be with us - she stopped of her own accord though still loves a cuddle when she's upset at 17 - the problems are usually boyfriend related now though rather than monsters!

i sympathise with you - we've got really no involved family and at least in our case it made the loss of position with mummy harder to bear and the sibling rivalry much worse. I have shouted at my DD too as she can go on for hours too and usually when I've got nothing left but it absolutely does make things worse and also it drags you down due to the weight of the guilt - I don't know many parents that haven't been driven to it when desperate though, only on mumsnet!

Finding a worthwhile counsellor is really hard - have you asked other mums at school if any of them ever sought and got any good help on sleeping? It can be an expensive and not terribly helpful business.

It will get better, honestly, silent reflux, this sounds like a storm of sibling related anxiety - my DD was kicking the cat (she loves the cat, she was desperate) and trying to pull the TV over at this point. You have to believe it will get better, as it will, and it helps manage your reaction.

when my DD keeps finding new fears, it's because her general level of anxiety is up and she has a higher need for comfort. It is hard to accommodate a very needy child with a newborn, but if the fears are cycling etc, it's a more general need and that's why addressing a specific cause like wolves isn't working.

Also with my dd, the way you react can become the game, get mummy to feel as bad as i feel. It is hard but it is better if you can manage a broken record firm voice technique. So hard to do when you are exhausted.

Bettyboo, it all sounds so so exhausting. I remember feeling the same when my youngest (now 2) was a baby, so if my eldest (9) ever got up, I'd just feel so angry and frustrated! I still do at times now if he gets up (as turns every single light on wakes everyone up!).

But I do think he just needs you, it's so easy to say calm, when you're in the dark of the night completely shattered, your anxiety will be high, his anxiety will be high, you will both be bouncing off each other.

It does sound like you have anxiety / possibly PND. I suffered after my first and it always lingered for a long time. I've actually had counselling this year and the main focus has been to talk about my feelings of frustration towards the eldest, when the youngest consumes so much time. It has helped A LOT, is that something you could do for yourself? Reach out to talk to someone, why it is triggering you so much, and why you feel so sad/angry about it? If you can work on strategies to better channel the frustrations and upsets on your part, the situation itself won't feel as bad and scary for you.

My eldest is the same, sleeping with us isn't a solution, as he's more restless, and doesn't sleep. So I know where you are coming from with that.

I'm not going to offer any wise words of advice for the nights as I'm sure you've tried everything and many have suggested lots of good ideas, but do try to get help for yourself. If you focus on yourself first, your feelings, the rest might fall into place.

There's a compromise between being "nice" and "crying and screaming at him". Be firm and consistent.

Have you seen the gp about PND yet?

Do you think he could be having nightmares?

Re new baby, couple of things that we did for my little boy after we had baby:

• Bought a white noise box for his room to mask the sound of baby crying in the night (www. class="break-all" href="https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07BSZS71K/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_-JVrCbJ4WH547)?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-am-i-being-unreasonable-3475165-Am-I-scarring-my-child-for-life" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.co.uk/dp/B07BSZS71K/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_-JVrCbJ4WH547)
• If he gets up now, we only say calmly "it's time for sleep" we put back in bed and say "night night I love you". Had to do this 15 times in the space of 90 minutes at the start. Some nights we still have to. But it helps him realise night time is not for talking, messing about, playing etc.

Some nights he will wake up screaming though and say he's seen a monster, at this point I do give him a cuddle and a kiss and tell him we don't let any monsters in our house. But then still "it's time for sleep, I love you night night".

You must be exhausted, I really hope you are able to overcome this for all your sakes x

Thanks pipo I think you are so right. I don’t understand why I get so angry / upset so quickly with him. I use to be so calm and had such a laid back approach with him.

I feel guilty for spending time with the baby in front of ds as I know that’s probably making him feel even more left out.

My nephew did this for a long time. They had a spare cot mattress at the foot of their bed and he was allowed to come and sleep on that through the night, it really helped his anxiety knowing he had that safe space with Mum and Dad.

Are you still screaming and shouting at him in the middle of the night?