re school exclusion

[mummy207]

I posted a while back about my DS being inappropriate at school, he asked a teacher to add him on snapchat and was isolated for it. The reactions on here were split between whether this was an overreaction by the school or acceptable. I accepted it and sanctioned him at home and fully supported the school after reading all of your helpful responses. Lots of teachers responded.

Unfortunately today there has been a follow up and I have been told my son needs to be excluded tomorrow and stay at home. I totally agree he is being absolutely unacceptable , he apparently lifted his top up and asked the teacher whether she liked his abs. I know it's fucking insane, don't get me started.

They have said because this is his second "Sexually inappropriate offense" (question whether the snapchat thing was sexually inappropriate!!) , he needs an external exclusion which will go on his record. Although I agree he is in the wrong, this again to me seems really ridiculous. What is making him sit at home all day going to achieve? He will be on xbox! Also some of his peers have had several fights, bullying, etc and not been excluded. Exclusions are really rare. I am absolutely devastated. Is there anything I can do about this? It says on the paperwork I can challenge the exclusion?

Never mind a path to suspension, he's already been suspended for a day.

He will be permanently excluded if this sort of behaviour shows up again, as he may be deemed too risky to have in school.

And that may happen shortly before his GCSEs and unless you want that, you need to take action, OP. Serious action.

I cannot stress enough that you need access to his phone. What youvvery likely will find on there will surprise you, and probably not in a good way.

PPnis right, if he does this to a teacher, what comments etc is he making to girls his own age and younger? Is he doing similar

You need to find out now and nip this in the bud.

I mean path to expulsion, sorry!

If you and your dh dont take this seriously and act fast enough he is going to be one of those vile men you hear about all the time. Hes already young enough and knows how to sexually harass women. Even after his first exclusion that didnt affect him enough to change his behavior. He obviously learnt nothing. Please listen to the advice given on this thread, hes heading the wrong way and seems like it's a joke for you and your husband.

jessstan2
You may not like what UnknownStunstman has posted but these incidents are slowly escalating, and it needs to be stopped now.

He just didn't know the right way to say things and behave. Thankfully he did no harm

How do you know that he did no harm to anyone, are you in touch with all of the people that he was inappropriate too?

As people have said its not just words.

You mentioned in your op that you sanctioned him at home after the first incident. How? It concerns me that you didn’t think about removing his Xbox immediately. It is possibly the case you didn’t come down on him hard enough last time and that he still sees his behaviour as banter and harmless.

I don’t routinely look at my teens phone but any occasion where I thought there was a possibility of it being misused I would.

He's just being a twat, probably to show off in front of mates.

Nope your son is sexually harassing females in the workplace. Either its the same teacher - in which case it's targeted. Or its a different one in which case how many other females is he harassing? The other students are likely to try to "laugh it off" rather than report it.

You do need to clamp down on this hard now or he is likely to behave worse. Sexual harassment is a disciplinary matter in the workplace, and can be "gross misconduct". It is also horrible to the victim.

How would you feel if this was a male teacher's behaviour to your daughter?
How would you feel if it was your 22 year old daughter (or older) who has to work with gangs of 15/16 year olds behaving in such a way?

If this had been my son I would have gone ballistic - and probably come on here trying to find out how I could have gone so wrong to have brought up such a vile young man.

I missed that his mother wasn’t checking his phone. I find it really difficult to understand how you can protect our children effectively if you don’t check their phone and social media.
If I did find inappropriate material on the phone (as is likely) that would join the Xbox in the bin and be replaced by a ‘retro’ brick so it was not possible to send or download photos or videos.

Brilliant post MitziK

The laughing about mumsnet between OP and her DH combined with minimising on the previous thread is probably how this 15 year old thinks he is the big I am and can try to intimidate women and girls.

If that's how he behaves to a teacher with an audience, i would have serious concerns about how he speaks to and about girls in his year. Though obviously the beauty of him usong Snapchat is the messages disappear.

Of course he needed to be excluded. It sends a message to staff that school consider their safety to be important, shows girls they categorically do not have to accept harassment and sexual advances from men and boys, and shows boys that there are consequences for sexually harassing women.

I also like the idea that in y11 with his exams a few months away, his approach would be to play Xbox and sit on his phone all day and not do anything towards his exams. That's the attitude the school are dealing with from a15 year old who arrogantly feels entitled to harass staff and then do no work to his GCSEs

OP, my son is also in Y11 but at a special school because he is autistic.
Recently he blew up in class and told a teacher to “f**k off” and stormed from the classroom.
He wasn’t excluded but as his parents we were mortified. We sat him down and asked him to think about the impact of that on others around him. I got him to think about me being in the same position as the teacher and being told the same . He said he wouldn’t like it and so we pointed out that the teacher was probably also a Mum and her children wouldn’t like to think about her being spoken to that way,

In the end he wrote her a Christmas card with an apology in it and we added a note saying we appreciated her patience and understanding. Job done....and I don’t think he will ever do anything like that again.

Although DS is autistic I think many teenagers respond well to the “impact of your behaviour on others” chat when things like this occur.

Your DS’s situation is different but he needs to think about how that might have made the teacher feel and how it might have made others feel. I get that he has a crush on this teacher and like most teenage boys is young and silly emotionally but he needs to understand how his behaviour....as silly as it was might have made others feel.

And yes...definitely take a look at his phone.

Although I criticised OPs stance in my last post, I do think this thread is getting a bit bonkers.

Did this 15 year old boy behave in a sexually inappropriate way towards a teacher ? Absolutely. The fact it was the second time he had done something makes it more serious- reflected in the punishment he received. This needs t be backed up at home with a serious conversation, and perhaps ongoing work, with their DS about his behaviour and respecting boundaries, respect for teachers and women more generally. It should be taken serious in order to nip this sort of behaviour in the bud and prevent it escalating.

I don't, however, think he deserves to be labelled as a sexual deviant or that it is inevitable he is going to go onto to become a rapist or paedophile- because that's just not the case. Quite a few teenage boys do horrible things, get hauled up for it and realise the error of their ways and sort themselves out. Some don't and go onto become complete misogynists- or worse, to become sexual offenders of some kind. And many men who are rapists/sexual offenders have not displayed sexually inappropriate behaviour at school.....

jacks
I agree.
It doesn't mean he will become a rapist or deviant, but how this situation is handled will make a massive difference whether he continues to feel entitled to harass any woman he feels entitled to, attempt to humiliate women, develop an ego of being god's gift to women (which is often accompanied in due course with a belief that any woman who doesn't throw themselves as his feet must be a lesbian or frigid or need to be shown a good time).

I think, though maybe I'm being too charitable, people are pointing out that the lessons boys are taught in their teens stay with them for life and so far the response from home over the two incidents doesn't seem like It's teaching him to respect women and girls.

If at all possible, I'd take the day off work and spend it with my son teaching him what sexually innapropriate behaviour is, the effect it had on other people and why he's being punished for it. A quick Google will probably find you several online courses or reference sources.

I suspect the OP won’t take the day off work to deal with this. It’ll be complaining to MN that the thread is “distressing” and then off to work. Completely ignoring the issue.

Agree entirely with @maisypops

It's about how this is handled NOW so that this lad can be steered back onto behaving correctly.

One incident is misguided, two directed at the same teacher shows the behaviour bus getting progressively worse.

It needs halting and remedial action. That means OP has to step up and not just be fuming and not speak to him, but to take positive steps in helping him understand the error of his ways and ensuring he doesn't repeat this sort of behaviour.

For everyone's sake. Including the OP and her son, as well as the teacher and other kids.

Teacher here:

Yup, teenage boys are idiots. An exclusion seems (to me anyway) quite a lot for flashing his abs. HOWEVER, if this was aimed at the same teacher as before, it could be construed as harassment.
It's a lot better that he knows that sort of behaviour (even unintentional teenage idiocy) certainly won't be tolerated in adult life, and learns the lesson now, rather than in another 3 years, when he might be in the work place and could face far more severe consequences that are potentially life-chances-damaging.

He needs to understand, in no uncertain terms, that his behaviour is unacceptable. Absolutely no dossing on the Xbox for the day! If he were my son, he'd be spending the day writing letters of apology, explaining the lesson he's learned, to the school, and to you.

If it's any consolation, assuming he learns his lesson well, in 10-15 years, you'll be able to look back on this experience with him and chuckle.

I’m glad they are tackling his behaviour properly. At 23 as a trainee teacher I had a lad the same age look me up and down and tell me I was thick and only good for one thing. When I went to his head of year I was told it was just him and not to take it personally. A few weeks later he said in classgay people were disgusting and he’d kill every one of them if he could. He didn’t know I was gay but that wasn’t the point. Again I was told not to take it personally.

The school let that boy down by not making it clear his behaviour was unacceptable.

zing
There is no construing needed. He's behaved inappropriately to a teacher, made suggestive comments (under the claim of banter), suggested she adds him on Snapchat, home did almost nothing and now He's flashing his body to a member of staff.
It's cut and dry harassment from a year 11 student who feels he can behave how he likes after home decided original inappropriate and suggestive behaviour to a teacher was just a joke (and possibly, IIRC, that if she can't handle teenage boys then maybe she shouldn't be teaching! though that might have been a different poster)

Dad is too far away to kick his arse (literally or metaphorically) in any meaningful sense, and you have three others kids hanging off you and work as well! No wonder you're under siege!

I do wonder if this could be part of the problem - his mum is over-stretched and his dad (his role model for adult male behaviour) is not around. If I was mummy207 I'd be having a serious conversation with his father about whether it's worth him spending more time at home for the next couple of years, even if it means a job change.

(Sorry, I should have said not around enough - obvs he has a father who is in his life and cares about him)

If SS were notified that a repeated sex pest was living with vulnerable children and it's mother didn't care and it's father was making jokes about it, I'm sure they would take an interest

Oh come on. I work in a role that requires me to liaise with SS on a daily basis. The idea that they would be even remotely interested in OP's situation as it stands is ridiculous.

Is there a suitably stern teacher at school (male probably) who can lay down the law and explain why it's so inappropriate. He obviously has boundary issues, currently it's teachers but is it also with fellow students? He needs to learn about appropriate behaviour and a person outside the family is sometimes better placed

zing

If it's any consolation, assuming he learns his lesson well, in 10-15 years, you'll be able to look back on this experience with him and chuckle

Seriously? Top bantz round yours laughing at the time your child sexually harassed a teacher? That's definitely one for the wedding speeches isn't it?

OP you are enabling your ds's sexually aggressive, escalating behaviour by referring it to as 'laddish' - WTF does that mean? It's not 'laddish' - it is sexually threatening. The fact that you can't grasp this is worrying. Your ds has a heightened sense of his own sexuality and clearly sees the school as an environment to express those thoughts. On what planet is that remotely acceptable?

Your original posts moaning about an exclusion being pointless as 'he'll just be on his X-box' - this tells us everything about your own sense of responsibility and engagement. You'd be happy to let him do as he pleases and send out the message that the exclusion is meaningless. Well done you. .

I would not be at all surprised if your ds is addicted to very nasty porn - why aren't you checking his phone ffs? he is only 15.

You need to get a grip and take control of your ds. he's on a dangerous downward slope right now.

@mummy207

Sorry to @ you, but you asked for help with how to tackle this behaviour now.

In my LA we have this team who work with children and young people who display sexually harmful behaviour. You may want to see if yours has a similar service and ask their advice:

www.surreycc.gov.uk/social-care-and-health/childrens-social-care/support-for-young-people-and-their-families/our-assessment-consultation-therapy-act-team

How on earth is a 15-year-old showing off his stomach sexual harassment? If he'd pulled down his trousers and waggled his bum... that would be harassment.

Christ, I've always thought I was a repressive prude when dealing with students, but a teenager showing his abs would have earned only a 'put it away and stop being an idiot'. The idea that any teacher would be intimidated by a teenage boy acting the maggot leaves me speechless.