To think that the uk is a hostile environment for the natives aswell as for immigrants nowadays?

[malificent7]

Well the government have succeeded in one thing; making the uk a hostile place to live for most people what with cuts. Brexit etc. Is it just me or do things feel... tense?

Thousands of poorer UK pensioners who have partners of working age could lose up to £7,000 a year in top-ups as a result of imminent rule changes that will require them to claim universal credit as a couple.

Changes slipped out on Monday night by the Department for Work and Pensions mean that from 15 May, new pensioners whose partners are younger than the state retirement age of 65 can no longer claim a means-tested top-up called pension credit.

Instead they will be forced to claim the much less generous universal credit alongside their younger partners.

The couple rate of universal credit is £114.81 a week compared with £255.25 for a couple receiving pension credit. This amounts to a potential loss of £7,320 a year.
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Age UK described the change as a “substantial stealth cut” and said it could have a devastating effect on the health and wellbeing of some older people and increase the numbers of pensioners in poverty.

Caroline Abrahams, charity director, said: “It is by no means unusual for one partner to be slightly older than the other within relationships and the bigger the age gap between them, the more long-lasting the adverse impact on them will be because of this proposed change.

“That’s why this government policy has been dubbed ‘the toy boy tax’ by some – but that’s not to trivialise the really serious impact it is likely to have on anyone unlucky enough to be subjected to it. For some, the impact will be truly devastating. The government should think again.”
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The scale of the potential losses faced by couples could put pressure on existing relationships, say experts, and may persuade them that they cannot afford to marry or move in together.

The average age gap for mixed-age couples is 2.6 years, meaning the cash loss incurred before the younger partner becomes old enough to claim pension credit could be £19,000. Where the gap is greater the potential total lost will be more.

Age UK said pensioners may find themselves in the “absurd position” of being financially better off if they split up and live apart from their partner.

A single person who claims the top-up is eligible for £167.25 a week in pension credit, meaning that in theory a pensioner will be better off staying “solo” for benefit purposes rather than claiming with a partner.

Gareth Morgan, a benefits expert, said a single person getting pension credit who forms a relationship with a person of working age would lose their entitlement to that benefit and would have to claim universal credit as a couple.

However, if they were to separate again, even if they remained living in the same home but as separate households, their total incomes would increase substantially. This is because a single person’s pension credit combined with a single person’s universal credit amounts to more than a couple’s universal credit payment.

“It would be surprising if the DWP didn’t have to make substantial numbers of assessments about the genuineness of relationship breakdowns,” said Morgan.

“It would be surprising if the DWP didn’t have to make substantial numbers of assessments about the genuineness of relationship breakdowns,” said Morgan.

Currently, people who reach retirement age and are eligible can claim pension credit regardless of the age of their partner. In future they will have to wait until their partner also reaches 65, although the state retirement age will be increased to 66 in October 2020.

Couples with one partner under state pension age who are already in receipt of pension credit will be unaffected. But they will be moved to the new system if their circumstances change, such as a change of address, or even if the pensioner partner goes abroad for longer than a month.

If a mixed-age couple claim universal credit, the pensioner partner will not be required to look for work as a condition, unlike working-age claimants. The government says the younger partner’s claimant conditions will be tailored to meet the couple’s circumstances.

The pension credit change has been in place since the Welfare Reform Act 2012, but ministers put off its introduction until universal credit was fully rolled out. Last month universal credit moved into every Jobcentre Plus area of the UK

badlydrawnperson

"In June 2010, through a Freedom of Information Act request, The Sunday Telegraph obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service.[n 2] The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–10 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 59 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent"

inews.co.uk/news/uk/universal-credit-dwp-accused-of-burying-news-pensioners-benefits-younger-partners-mixed-age-couples/

@themoomoo

Thanks - I had found those figures but the argument was about knife crime - it doesn't look as if knife crime stats are collected separately.

" The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent crimes in 2009–10 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 59 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent"

This of course is blunt statistics.

Its much more interesting when you dig deeper and ask what % of men aged 16-40 are black, in areas where these crimes are prevalent. Gives a far better perspective.

Also "accused" does not mean guilty of.

Tense yes It really kicked off in my area of Essex over the weekend.

I was saying to a friend a couple of days ago that parts of Essex and London feel like they did in the build-up to the 2011 riots. It's pretty unnerving at times.

Well said @elonmask.

Actually @elonmusk your constant points about attitudes to homosexuality etc amongst Muslims in the UK, need to be compared to other values, because other wise you are bclaiming that the data shows that these are exceptional.

Research shows that nearly 40% of Anglicans believe that Homosexuality is wrong, or almost always wrong.

www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes-towards-gay-rights/

But hey, its whatabouttery right? Or is it htat you have used this argument to say that Islam is not compatible with Western values, when a larger sub group of people in the UK, of UK descent hold similar values?

If you were a challenge this would be fun, instead you are just a boring Tommeh type.

I left the UK 8 years ago intending to move back. You couldn't pay me to now.

BorisBogtrotter

The number of Anglicans in the UK is in steep decline, which I assume you would be quite happy with ? Why would you also be happy that the number of people who identify with a culture which holds views I assume you do not like, is steeply on the increase ? Either it is good that people who hold such views find their numbers on the decline or it is not, so which is it ?

Can you provide evidence of any Anglicans espousing the view that e.g..adulterers should be stoned to death ?

Since you have previously stated that anyone who would object to Islam becoming the dominant culture in the UK is a "racist" then there is no point in debating with you.

I don't blame the lack of Christianity tbh or any religion. Religion is the basis of many societoes but is used to justify lots of sexist, racist, untolerant views such as the suppression of women.
There can still be cohesion in a secular society.

Research shows that nearly 40% of Anglicans believe that Homosexuality is wrong, or almost always wrong.

But surely that is also just blunt statistics ...

“There can still be cohesion in a secular society.”

I don’t think there can be. I honestly don’t, there has never been a successful atheistic society- so this is venturing into the unknown. Lack of shared common values is never going to end well, there’s no cohesion.

Yes religion may have some things that some might consider “oppressive” but what we have now is a permissive society, where anything goes-
I think sexual violence against women is getting “worse”, partly aided by violent pornography (part of moral decline). just look at the fenminist forum atm- the stuff is unreal- a 16 year old having to wear a colostomy bag after attempting group sex, a child posing with a near naked drag queen, violence is soaring, crime and anti social behaviour up. I think people are starting to notice it but refuse to consider the affect throwing out the old system of morality.

Whilst people go on about their “rights” to do anything they want- some have forgotten about restraint, tolerance, discipline, personal responsibility, fairness.

I really think the times are becoming increasingly evil, I think things are going to get worse.

I believe in the gospel message as truth- and as it says building on anything else is like building on sand and it will fall apart.

"But surely that is also just blunt statistics wink.."#

Of course it is, but elon has never used any nuance or anything to back her points up. Just blunt statistics.

That statistic rather proves that her "not equitable with western values" trope is incorrect.

For western values Im thinking more of the magna carta, reformation the enlightenment than Oliver Cromwell funnily enough..

@HelenaDove, I'd expect a working person who is younger than pension age and who forms a cohabiting relationship, or marriage, to support the other person, just as married/cohabiting working couples do when one earns more than the other.

The way benefits are calculated have always been favourable to couples splitting up. A single mother of young children, on full means tested benefits can receive a large amount in child support from the children's father without losing a penny. He may move in with his parents (really?) but as long as they are not considered to be cohabiting they are quids in. They stay together, and the financial benefits are cut or disappear completely. What price happy families?

Aggression - over car parking spaces, seats on the tube, neighbour noise - all much worse than I remember.

Lack of consideration for others - noise, eating food on the train, loud conversations, rudeness, entitlement, litter. It is uncomfortable.

What is the cause of all this though? Are people just becoming less well mannered and inconsiderate or is there a specific reason?

The UK feels hostile to anyone who can't look after themselves and never receives benefits from the government.
It feels like you have to keep your head down and try not to claim anything.
But compared to the 70s and 80s, the UK is a utopia! I lived abroad as a child in the 70s and Switzerland at the time was very anti migrant.
They certainly didn't like British people and anyone 'brown' was treated like rubbish!
My parents made loads of friends with the 'undesirables' in our block of flats. Maybe that's why the Swiss didn't like us because we 'mixed'?

"For western values Im thinking more of the magna carta, reformation the enlightenment than Oliver Cromwell funnily enough"

No, no. You identified one particluar piece of data and used it to suggest that Islam was the problem, then when data is presented showing similar values held by other religious groups in the UK ( it was also 40% of other Christians other than Catholics), you change the goal posts.

Intellectual cowardice there.

Boris - But you're using statistics to back up your claims too. Why are you right when you use statistics but Elon wrong? Sound like you are twisting the statistics to suit your own viewpoint as much as you accuse Elon of doing.

No, no. You identified one particluar piece of data and used it to suggest that Islam was the problem

What are you on about ? I've identified several things I perceive as problematic (as have many others) with islamic culture where ever it is dominant. You seem to think that all these countries where women have next to no rights (and all the rest) are some sort of an aberration and no way indicitve of anything whatsoever. Perhaps you can inform all these dudes about the true Islam ? Since you know what it is and how they are getting it all wrong. Your position is that there is no correlation between any of these things, and even if there was Catholics are apparently just as bad, and have the same attitudes towards women and domestic violence (they don't) etc so it's fine. It's the exact same attitude as lead to the failings in all the grooming scandals, "we can see no commonality, nothing to see here".

You've repeatedly used homophobic attiitudes amongst British Muslims to say that they are not compatible with Western Values. YOu have dismissed any comparison with other religious groups in the West as "whatbaoutsim"

You have used this as an example of why immigration of certain groups is an issue, but fail to explain why its not an issue for others This demonstrates your exceptionalism.

You are now trying to equate attitudes in other countries with this, but as you already know other developing countries that are not Islamic also have many of these issues.

Sorry your arguments are bunkum and show your nefrious prejudices.

"Boris - But you're using statistics to back up your claims too."

I'm using statistics to counter Elon's points, its a valid way of doing so.

"Sound like you are twisting the statistics to suit your own viewpoint as much as you accuse Elon of doing."

Not at all.

Elon used a statistic that 50% of Muslims in the UK believe that homosexuality is never ok to justify a point on why Muslim values are not compatible with Western ones, and to further her point on why immigration from these countries is dangerous to the West.

To point out that many other religious groups who are not immigrants in the West also hold these values demonstrates that its not exclusive and that her point about immigration being the dangerous thing is erroneous.