To think that the uk is a hostile environment for the natives aswell as for immigrants nowadays?

[malificent7]

Well the government have succeeded in one thing; making the uk a hostile place to live for most people what with cuts. Brexit etc. Is it just me or do things feel... tense?

"anyone who objects to the Islamisation of entire towns is a racist."

Well they are, sorry, there are also very few places where this has occurred.

Exceptionalism again.

Ahhh fallacies and poorly argued points.

Perhaps point out the fallacy. Otherwise people will just think you have lost the argument you see. Its a fallacy or pure coincidence that there are no high profile homosexual Muslims then ?

The racism is on your part. Imagine that instead of Muslims it was devout Christians from the American south who were coming. When polled they happily told you about how they wanted being gay to be a crime.

Would you be rushing to excuse them ? Saying the poll must be wrong !!! Or would you believe them and point to the society's they came from as evidence. Would you be happy they were coming ? Do you think Christians are worse ?

Exceptionalism again.

Gotcha, so it's grand if a few towns become entirely muslim.

Until relatively recently, a high proportion of native Brits probably thought homosexuality should be illegal. Presumably some still do. And many Christians in the UK probably have beliefs that are very incompatible with those of the non-religious native UK population.

It is true that we should be able to discuss religious beliefs and their impact on society without being automatically labelled 'racist', but I'd wager that most of the people who regularly trawl round the internet ranting about 'Muslims in our country' are in fact bigots.

You talk sense @ElonMask.

" Its a fallacy or pure coincidence that there are no high profile homosexual Muslims then ?"

No its begging the question, a fallacy.

"Gotcha, so it's grand if a few towns become entirely muslim."

If that's how towns evolve yeah that's fine. There is no reason things should stay for ever the same. Baring in mind that most towns, and the size of them are a a relatively modern construct anyway.

Oh and appealing to tradition, another fallacy.

No its begging the question, a fallacy.

All that you are doing is refusing to answer a question because you cannot. "Why are there no prominent homosexual Muslims ?" is not an illogical question. Neither is it illogical to say that it would be better things did not change to become worse.

If that's how towns evolve yeah that's fine.

"Evolve"? Now who's appealing to nature ? But anyway that is what is happening increasingly all over Europe. Balkanisation. Great if that's just what happens says BorisBogtrotter.

"is not an illogical question. "

No but its one that you have set in order to reach a certain conclusion.

There are many active LGBT movements within Islam, look up Imaan in the UK.

"Neither is it illogical to say that it would be better things did not change to become worse."

But they are only "worse" because you say they are.

"Great if that's just what happens says BorisBogtrotter."

Strawman.

But they are only "worse" because you say they are.

This is pointless since you refuse to be drawn on what it is you actually believe.

Do you think islamic civilisation is better or worse than ours in the west ? Would you rather live in an islamic culture ? Are you indifferent about it ? You seem to think that Muslims will all become like us, suggesting you do think there is something "worse" after all...and anyway some Christians don't like gays either so it is fine.

Most Muslims, especially the ones coming here do not share your political ideals. To totally ignore this and say it's no problem how many we have is mad.

No but its one that you have set in order to reach a certain conclusion.

A rhetorical question you mean. Partly true but genuinely curious too as to why someone who thinks most Muslims are totally fine with homosexuality cant seem to find much in the way of islamic gay culture.

"Do you think islamic civilisation is better or worse than ours in the west ? "

Ridiculous question which isn't actually anything to do with the debate, but fits nicely into your hysterical "they will replace us" racist narrative.

You have identified one thing, using one piece of data and stuck to it, except that it doesn't hold when you find that a large number of praticing Christians hold the same, and equally as unmodern views.

Its ok though, you are a minority, and your incorrect and iniquitous agenda will never be enacted.

You have identified one thing

Whatever, just the one was it ?

except that it doesn't hold when you find that a large number of praticing Christians hold the same, and equally as unmodern views.

Eh ? So because some Christians might also be homophobic or have "unmodernised" views it what ? It doesn't matter that Muslims do ? It doesn't hold ?

But you are engaging in whataboutery, as you well know that a) I am contrasting Muslims views with those of the entire non Muslim population of the UK and b) if it was devout Christians with white skin and a literal interpretation of the Bible saying these things your reaction would not be to defend Christians. You are full of shit.

And anyway, Islam is not a race.

Elon would love to hear your views on the actual facts, that white British born men are actually involved in most violent crime in the UK. Doesn't quite fit into your narrative, does it? Bet you actually have met a man who has been in prison, whereas I am very doubtful you have ever actually spoken to someone of the Islamic faith, or you would not be quite as bigotted in your views of them. This has been seen time and again with people who are anti-immigrant, they are the ones who won't mingle, not the immigrants. People who do mingle have no issue with immigrants.

It does matter that Muslims do or do not hold these views are you are saying that they are not compatible with western ( essentially Christian) society and are not admitting that western people hold similar views. You are certainly not contrasting views with the entire non muslim population.

You are being exceptionalist in order to further you point.

Christianity is not immune to homophobia. I remember a very nice regular churchgoer Christian friend telling me the Boxing Day Tsunami was entirely due to Gods anger over gay marriage in the Western World. I was too bloody Gobsmacked to reply at the time. But this was something she'd been preached at her church. Illogical nonsense.

LonelyandTiredandLow

I actually have no problem with most immigration. What concerns me greatly is millions of devout practioners of a backwards religion changing the culture of the country to be more like theirs. I get that people like you and Boris think the UK is shit and it doesn't matter if the culture changes because "white men" are more violent than men with other skin tones apparently (evidence?) But it's actually you who is in the minority.

Married to a Muslim are you ? Thinking of converting ? Happy for your kids to go to an islamic faith school ? Plenty non Catholics go to Catholic faith schools, and this is just the same right ? Whatever.

It's very confusing that you chose that name, Boris . I was just thinking, me and BJ...same page, what? Then it clicked.

Elon if you think our culture is being ruined by diversity rather than the louts on the streets doing nazi salutes and sending out death threats to MP's (RIP Jo Cox), celebrities and popular public figures then I am truly sad for you. They are who are ruining our culture. Our lovely tolerant, kind country who has a free health service because we value health and life. Humane. Seems everyone who believed in that is now classed as a citizen of nowhere. That's where the cultural identity shift is coming in.

@ElonMask

It’s an experiment of sorts. This kind of large-scale immigration never been done before. We’ll just have to see what comes of it.

@LonelyandTiredandLow

I wouldn’t say diversity is altogether a bad thing, but diversity of what exactly? A functional society needs to agree on certain basic ideas or we can’t function.

LonelyandTiredandLow

Islam is not something usually noted for its tolerance of diverse opinions and lifestyles is it though. No matter though, better shut up.

@MrsAdrianeOliver

I agree, and at the moment across Europe it's not going all that well. Also who got a say in their countries participation in this experiment ? In 1950 Sweden was an ethnically homogeneous society by 2050 it will be unrecognisable, changed irrevocably fundamentally. You might assume that this is both inevitable and for the best but I don't see any compelling evidence for such a claim. I'm again talking here about Islam primarily.

"What concerns me greatly is millions of devout practioners of a backwards religion changing the culture of the country to be more like theirs."

Except that doesn't happen and or if it does the groups are again in the minority.

Pointing out the exceptions rather than the majority again.

"Many millions of Europeans are concerned about this and politics is changing across the continent as a result of it. "

Yes because of racism, not because of any legitimate issues.

Give me an example of Muslims demanding countries change to be more like Islamic countries.