Summer born babies - am I wrong?

[Sunflowermuma]

Hi all, I'm probably BU particularly as my friends plans don't actually have any impact on me but

I have 2DD D1 is 3 and May Born. DD2 is 6m July Born

My friend has 3 kids. DS aged 7Sept, DD 3Aug and DS 5mAug

Our two daughters are both due to start school in September at different schools, my friend told me this week how she is in contact with the school to have her daughter start Sept 2020 instead as she's summer born. I asked why as her daughter is already in nursery 5 days, has no health issues and certainly isn't behind on development. Her reasoning? She just doesn't want a child to be youngest in the year.

Her son is very bright and doing really well at school and she puts that down to his sept birthday.

I queried her and said someone has to be the youngest and surely if she doesn't have any developmental issues the school will just say no. She replied saying that she'll make something up as she'll do what she can to get her DD ahead. Again this made no sense to me as surely having another year at nursery won't be good for her and she may get picked on once the other kids realise? She got a bit snappy with me and told me to mind my own so I now feel bad for questioning her, I was polite and tbh just trying to understand her thinking

Do people really do this? I understand delaying for developmental reasons but just to make your child the oldest instead of youngest?

Most parents know their children best and know if they are ready for school at 4 or not.

Yeah, @Shantotto, I agree. I just mean that perhaps parents are being led to believe otherwise and that’s where the ‘deferring is only an option for the affluent’ view comes from (misinformation).

Ah, apologies Stillwish, I was picking you up wrong :)

3out Ah I see! Yes it’s so confusing - I wish it was simpler! Such variations between areas.

@shantoto & @3out

I was told the same!! I had to get tje DfE to email it to me (took a month!!) and take it in to them. To be fair it's not sonething our nursery had come across before. Hopefully it will make it easier for the next parents

It’s quite interesting - the difference and the attitudes. In Scotland the very youngest you can start school is 4 years and 5 months. Yet that is viewed as way too young by many, so most of those kids will defer.
But many of the posters here would think that four and a half was an ok age to start school (I suspect?) because that’s so much older than a split new four year old. (I would think the same if I was in England)

We’re in Scotland, the cut off here is 28th February. My DDs birthday is 2nd March, so we’re applying to get her in a year before she should. Funny thing is, she was a planned section at 39 weeks, should have been the 28th if it wasn’t a Saturday! So she’s 2nd March instead.

She’s been in private nursery since she was 10 months old, they probably know her better than I do by now! They’ve said she is totally ready for school this year instead of next and there would be no benefit to her staying at nursery another year. They’re fully supporting the application, in fact they suggested it!

In the same nursery class there are a couple of kids born a few days before, and their parents have said they’re keeping them back til the next year as they don’t feel they’re confident enough etc to start this year.

All depends on the child I suppose. I wouldn’t actively hold her back so as not to be the youngest in her year though, that just seems insane.

I’m not starting my son at reception at 4 because in my opinion that is too young. Far far too young! Not because I don’t want him to be the youngest. If school start was 6.5-7.5 like in some countries, I wouldn’t care he was the youngest because that’s a much more suitable start age. And by this time the differences in birth year or vastly if not entirely reduced.

@gudgyx - how old will she be when she starts? It's exactly this flexibility which i want for all children and their parents. if i had a very ready child i may feeel the same as you.
It's still a battle to get a delay in England and in some areas virtually impossible. I'm not sure anyone going through months and in some cases years of appeals, complaints and board hearings put themselves through all that 'just because they don't want them to be the youngest' it's a draining battle in England and most parents still decide to send at 4. It's not the right choice for everyone

Yeah, a lot of people on this thread seem to think the motivation to defer is down to not wanting our children to be the youngest in the year. It’s got nothing to do with that! I couldn’t give a flying fig if they were the youngest or not. My concern was that 4 and a half was way too young for our children to start school, and 17 and a half is a very different age than 18 and a half for leaving home (if they go to university).

@angela712 she will be 4.5, exactly the same as the kids who automatically get in that year, minus 2 days. Just this morning she’s been practicing writing her name, mum, dad etc and her friends name, and doing simple addition sums on her fingers. She knows all her colours and shapes and is learning to half and quarter and knows that it means into 2 or 4 etc. She fascinated me everyday with her knowledge of things. She’s so interested in how things work, I can’t always answer all her questions. Children are amazing aren’t they, just little sponges.

The argument about there potentially being 17 months between children just doesn't wash with me. Yes technically there could be one or two that may have that age gap but it's not going to be many at all. My son is 2 months and 2 weeks older than the eldest child in his year and she has always been way ahead of my son emotionally and academically. Her comprehension of things & her range of vocabulary way surpasses my son. I don't know whether there's any August borns but if there is they are 14 months younger than my son, which is not huge and like I've said he's very young for his age, hence delaying him, and many of the children in his year are ahead of him. One of my biggest concerns was that if your child isn't SEN, which mine isn't, but is right at the bottom and struggling, which he would have been, they slip through the net as there simply isn't enough time or resources for them, have already experienced it with one of my older sons. My son is meeting his milestones but just a bit slower than his peers, having the extra year at preschool did him the world of good and he progressed at his own pace without being forced to do things he just wasn't ready for yet. Just because delaying them makes them the eldest in the year doesn't instantly make the most academic and the most grown up, all children are totally different and develop at different rates. Like I've said previously if further down the line it was obvious we'd made a mistake and he shouldn't be in that year group it could be rectified. However the other way round starting too young, when they are not ready can cause so many problems that are nearly impossible to remedy and repeating a year is not so easy and could cause even more harm.

Wow she sounds really ready!!!

I'd be interested to.know if starting at 4.5 (plus or minus a couple of days!) Makes a difference to Summerborn vs September born? I would imagine so. Perhaps we'll end up with a similar system in England one day? Sounds very sensible to me - later start, parental freedom to delay or accelerate - good luck, i hope my two are as excited to start school 😀 all i want is for them to enjoy it - fingers crossed

@sunshine6 nailed it 🙌

@Oliversmumsarmy They're not necessarily expected to be at the same level. When my DC1 took the Eton Test, they staggered it to accommodate children who were younger in the academic year

You are so out of the loop.

I presume your boy went to private/boarding school too.

In the real world there is no staggering for those that turned 4years old a few days before. The curriculum has to be taught

They are lumped in with kids a year older and it is sink or swim.

The problem is most sink. So by the time you get to 12/13 to take the Eton test the damage has already been done.

I have noticed that there is also a difference between boys and girls.

Girls are more mature than boys at this age so developmentally summer born boys are at an even bigger disadvantage than summer born girls

Hence why we have had more people on saying how it hasn’t affected their dds as opposed to those with ds’s

I would like to know what happens when your child gets to Eton after having the results of the test altered because they are summer born. Are they taught separately or just expected to get on with the same lessons as the September born children.

The age gap thing does wash with me either. It won’t be huge numbers of children. And if it was a straightforward choice for all, and a normal thing, the numbers would even out. Also not everybody would want to defer their child anyway.

The ‘only a choice for the affluent’ argument is also incorrect. Preschool funding is still available, til the term after a child is five (when they would go to school).

Also, if it becomes a straightforward choice in every admissions policy, who is to say what ‘type’ of parent would take it up?

It is wrong that certain things are only available for the people who shout loudest. But, allowing ALL parents the choice whether to delay a summer born child’s schooling was promised to all parents in 2015 and has still not happened. It is not the ‘middle class mollycoddlers’ who who should be judged for that.

Also, re. boys and girls, the government asks year R teachers to provide termly progress reports on summerborn BOYS (not girls). That in itself suggests that the government thinks starting school at four is a huge an issue especially for boys (even if they haven’t yet done anything about it, apart creating a postcode lottery).

@holasoydora - beautifully put 👏

angela apart from the typos DH kept talking to me!

And while we're talking stats - this shoukd give everyone a better idea of the scale of the issue.

Last year there were 608,108 applications for a Primary School place.

2243 requests for out of cohort under Advice for Summerborns were made last year. (0.3 per cent)

53 per cent of those applications were for August born children.

75 per cent were approved - that's 1,682 children or 0.27 per cent of thst year group.

To put it another way one child in every 14 whole Reception classes was successfully delayrd with a Yr R start. The majority were born in August making them the eldest in their year by a maximum of one month.

@Holasoydora - i just can't reset the autocorrect on my phone, it just makes stuff up so i'm blaming Samsung for mine 🤣

angela I hate autocorrect. Why does it think it knows best?!

Very interesting stats. So hardly a tsunami of mollycoddlers

@holasoydora 🤣 more of a ripple in a puddle!

My friends would be absolutely wetting themselves with laughter at me being called a ‘middle class mollycoddler’ So far away from what I’m like it’s unbelievable 😂😂😂

Oh to be a middle class mollycoddler 🤣
Common misconception about parents who want to delay their child.
Nott a label one anyone who's met me in real life would ever use in a description of me 🙈

I tend to turn things into song in my head. I’m not sure if middle class mollycoddler should be changed into ‘MC MC in da house’ or a more Gilbert and Sullivan tribute a la modern major general 🤔