Summer born babies - am I wrong?

[Sunflowermuma]

Hi all, I'm probably BU particularly as my friends plans don't actually have any impact on me but

I have 2DD D1 is 3 and May Born. DD2 is 6m July Born

My friend has 3 kids. DS aged 7Sept, DD 3Aug and DS 5mAug

Our two daughters are both due to start school in September at different schools, my friend told me this week how she is in contact with the school to have her daughter start Sept 2020 instead as she's summer born. I asked why as her daughter is already in nursery 5 days, has no health issues and certainly isn't behind on development. Her reasoning? She just doesn't want a child to be youngest in the year.

Her son is very bright and doing really well at school and she puts that down to his sept birthday.

I queried her and said someone has to be the youngest and surely if she doesn't have any developmental issues the school will just say no. She replied saying that she'll make something up as she'll do what she can to get her DD ahead. Again this made no sense to me as surely having another year at nursery won't be good for her and she may get picked on once the other kids realise? She got a bit snappy with me and told me to mind my own so I now feel bad for questioning her, I was polite and tbh just trying to understand her thinking

Do people really do this? I understand delaying for developmental reasons but just to make your child the oldest instead of youngest?

Eh? @Angela712 I have RTFT, as it happens, and have also commented extensively (under another username, by accident). Not quite sure where the chip is, unless you are carrying it?

nojellybabies, so what exactly is disturbing you? I said Eton differentiate in their admissions test between boys who are older and younger in their school years. I also said that I, a late August-born person, obtained a First back in the days when Firsts were not that common.

Wherein lies the problem with either of those things?

Wherein lies the problem with either of those things?

It has nothing to do with deferring entry to Reception for summer borns, that’s what

If you had actually rtft you would have seen we are very aware that weighted exams exist for a reason, that there will always be someone with a Phd in astrophysics who was born in August, that it makes zero difference to the statistics which analysed millions of children's results on month of birth and shows Summerborns start, and remain behind their peers throughout their academic life.

@etonianmother you jumped to the conclusion that we judged you on your name - which YOU chose (presumably to avoid any doubt that your DS might have gobe to a comp?) , when in fact none of us give two hoots if you or your children were educated in the public school system or not.

And as for "i got a First before they were handed out to everyone" what sort of reaction were you hoping to illicit?

@ Haworthia highest of fives! 👏😂

Really, @Haworthia?

I did defer school entry for my August born DS, as it happens. He started school in Y1, and skipped Reception. I was quite happy to have him at home, rather than sending him to school at the age of just four. This is arguably easier in the independent sector (and is also possibly easier outside London, though it may be hearsay that the independent schools in London/Home Counties won't hold places for children whose parents want them to start later). This was my choice, based entirely on a combination of his age and personality. So, yes, I think it is relevant. And Eton evidently recognise a boy's age within his school year as being relevant, too (I say 'boy' only because Eton only take boys, obviously. I have girls, too).

So far as my own situation is concerned, I was born when children didn't start school until the term before their fifth birthday. So I started school in the summer term just before I turned five, along with all the other girls (it was a girls' school) whose birthdays fell after Easter. It wasn't a big deal for anyone. I suspect my DM would have chosen to keep me at home if anyone had expected me to start school a day after I turned four. But it wasn't on offer then, so we will never know!

@Angela712, I think you mean 'elicit'. Sorry.

I do have other children, btw, who are not at Eton (not least because they are girls).

One of many statistics

@etonianmother - of course you are, derply i'm sure. Lots of typos and autocorrect misgaps in my posts - nothing illict about me. But now you're done posturing - any answers to my wuestions?
Smoking?
Why you presumed you were being judged on your name? (Now that you can apologise for as soon as you feel able.)
And for clarity you did not defer your child. Had you RTFT you would know what that means- absolutely not sorry 😁

And thsnk you for the clarification on your start month. So you were fine as an August birthday. However you started just before you turned 5, not weeks after turning 4 which is THE WHOLE POINT OF OUR ARGUMENT that Summerborns should not start school at 4 yrs and a day in some cases

The evidence is clear that summer borns can struggle. I'm a primary school governor and we see it in the attainment data for every year group, markedly so in the lower years. In my own children's classes all the brightest children are either Autumn or very early spring term born. There's no doubt in my mind that being one of the youngest in the class should be avoided if at all possible!

Angela712, I don't want to get into an argument/debate specifically with you. I don't entirely understand the first of your last two posts, but that's presumably to do with your auto-correct or whatever it is that smartphones do (I don't have one, thank goodness).

In your second one, you don't need to shout. What I don't agree with is people deferring summer-borns so that they start in Reception with children who are more than a year younger than they are. Deferring school entry so they don't do Reception at all is something slightly different.

This also depends on family circumstances. I was able and happy to have my DC (all summer babies, as it happens) at home until I thought they were ready for school. If I hadn't thought they were ready until they were six, say, I would have kept them at home until then. One of mine insisted on going to school at just over four. I let her go, as it would have seemed equally wrong to keep a child at home just because I thought - on principle - that it was too young for full-time school, when she was desperate to go and be with her older siblings...

As for my own First: I was just suggesting that (perish the thought) being born at the end of August does not necessarily condemn anyone to the academic scrap-heap. In fact, some of us do reasonably well, against the (now) apparent odds.

@etonianmother but children already do start school with children im their class who are an entire year younger. Sept 1st child is 5 years old, an August 31st child is 4 yrs and a day old - 364 days vetween them

@EtonianMother I'm not sure if from what you've said all your children attend private schools or not?

Angela712 yes, of course they do. But someone has to be the youngest. If everyone with a child born in July/August started putting their child into the 'wrong' Reception year, the children born in June would become the youngest. Then their parents would start quibbling. And so on. On the whole, I think we have to trust teachers to make sure all children are ok, assuming we are not all willing/able to skip Reception entirely. When mine started school, it was clear that we would struggle to start them later in the state system as our local primary was so vastly oversubscribed (in one admissions year, only siblings got places, regardless of catchment) that if you wanted a place, you needed to accept it regardless of anything else. This was another reason we didn't go down that route: we wanted to decide for ourselves.

Sunshine, all independent.

And for clarity - no-one judged you on your name, you assumed we did because you absolutely did not RTFT. Again, apology most welcome when you are ready

To delay a Summerborn means to admit them to school in Yr R out of cohort at CSA (5) i.e. to send them to Reception a year later

To defer means to start your child later on tin their original Academic year - i.e. Spring term. You did neither.

You did not start school just after your 4th birthday so you are not an example of someone who beat the system

Despite there being someone currently studying Knot Theory at Oxbridge who was born in August, on aversge summerborns are always behind their September-born peers. By a significant margin.

Oh dear god. @etonianmother the best teachers in the world cannot make up for starting school a year younger - precisely what the stats prove, not to mention the SEN figures. As lots of us have pisted multiple times throughout the thread you have apparently RTFT 🤣

Same thing 🙄 Well then it kind of proves the point that your views on 'delaying' entry and starting reception at CSA are completely irrelevant 😂 😂

And you already know that it's children born April - August who are summerborns, not just July / Aug don't you?

You know, because you have RTFT

Ridiculous. My DD was born at the end of August and does well in school. She's amazingly bright and never struggled apart from when she was being lazy. All fine now expecting good SATS results this year

@Angela712, I think I said, and I repeat, that I RTFT (and commented on it, under another name, albeit accidentally). I do apologise if I have offended.

I am just giving an example of other ways around the system. If, however, those ways had not been available to me, my summer-born DC would have started full-time school at the age of just-turned-four. I'd have been displeased about it, but they would have been absolutely fine in the end (bear in mind I'm now looking at this from the perspective of children who are heading for university, so am well beyond the primary phase).

On the whole, however much we agonise, they are all absolutely fine.

And, yes, I do know that April onwards counts as summer-born. I am mentioning July and August because I and my DC were born in those months.

Again, completely irrelevant then as the education system has changed hugely and reception & year one today are nothing like they were just a few years ago. Gone are the days of learning through play, now it's all hitting targets & passing assessments, meaning from very early on they can get labeled 'behind' when in fact they are just age appropriate, but that doesn't fit with the system.

No @etonianmother your children are absolutely fine. There is a difference.

For someone supposedly so very well educated & intellgent you do seem to make some very silly sweeping statements 😂 Plenty of research has statistics proving many many summerborns are not absolutely fine.

And yes you did offend when you presumed that i judged you, but i'm losing the will to live and the ability to see thanks to atropine drops so - bygones