Summer born babies - am I wrong?

[Sunflowermuma]

Hi all, I'm probably BU particularly as my friends plans don't actually have any impact on me but

I have 2DD D1 is 3 and May Born. DD2 is 6m July Born

My friend has 3 kids. DS aged 7Sept, DD 3Aug and DS 5mAug

Our two daughters are both due to start school in September at different schools, my friend told me this week how she is in contact with the school to have her daughter start Sept 2020 instead as she's summer born. I asked why as her daughter is already in nursery 5 days, has no health issues and certainly isn't behind on development. Her reasoning? She just doesn't want a child to be youngest in the year.

Her son is very bright and doing really well at school and she puts that down to his sept birthday.

I queried her and said someone has to be the youngest and surely if she doesn't have any developmental issues the school will just say no. She replied saying that she'll make something up as she'll do what she can to get her DD ahead. Again this made no sense to me as surely having another year at nursery won't be good for her and she may get picked on once the other kids realise? She got a bit snappy with me and told me to mind my own so I now feel bad for questioning her, I was polite and tbh just trying to understand her thinking

Do people really do this? I understand delaying for developmental reasons but just to make your child the oldest instead of youngest?

@openmindeddoris sigh

@Angela712 right back at you

My son is August born and now 16 is really feeling the effects. Sports, academic work everything.

I wish I’d done what your friend did years ago.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread - every time I do it's:

A - well I / my dc were August birthdays and we all have double firsts from oxbridge
B - well if you delay them they'll have an unfair advantage and where will it end?
C - if you delay them they'll go straight into year one
D - the teachers can tailor learning to all ages and abilities
E - they will all catch up within a few years

Much of which is complete bollocks when looking at the academic achievements of summer borns, the higher rate of diagnosis of ASD/ADHD etc

It's such a shame that these apparently intelligent posters are unable to see anything other than their own experiences and preconceptions.

And on a personal note it's making me feel like a shit parent for applying to delay my child (with some pretty robust justification) - a decision I didn't take lightly and have solely based on his background history and developmental delays - as noted by professionals.

@tubs honestly I wish I’d done this. So feel good you’ve supported your child. Mine is SERIOUSLY struggling.

And Mumsnet is not exactly evidence based so questions like these don’t use it to the best. It’s a bit dumbing down.

Attitudes and opinions, experiences are best asked for in Mumsnet I find. Not what the evidence is.

Please can you share the data about higher rates of ASD and ADHD- fancinating

stillwishihadabs It’s misdiagnosis of ADHD that is the issue - when children are up to a year younger, their lack of concentration, fidgetiness etc can lead to diagnosis when in comparison to September norms / older children.

This is a US study-
inews.co.uk/news/health/adhd-diagnosis-more-likely-youngest-school-year

UK study -
m.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/10/11/adhd-misdiagnosis-younger-children_a_23240468/?ec_carp=2835132776922855600

Because the most disadvantaged children who are looked after or whose parents aren't invested in their education or can't afford to defer them won't be deferred and then bamm they may be up to 17 months younger than a deferred April born who would be fine anyway. It just widens the gap for these children.

Completely agree with the above. All that the ability to defer (without SEN etc) is make it possible for some children to be 17 months older than others!

@stillwishihadabs if you google Institite of Fiscal Studies - when you are born matters the data should appear (sorry it's a download not a link i can share!)

@pinacolada1
So sorry your son is struggling and it's such a shame that this has only recently become an option for parents (who are often forced into a protracted and difficult battle to get it)

@tubspreciousthings
You are absolutely not a sht parent!! I know how hard it is to even apply for a delay, you are doing what you think is best fir your child, and remember thefe's not a single study which shows the benefit of starting school at 4 hugs*
And yes it's exhausting on MN justifying yourself all the time. You're trying to let others know how bad things are for Summerborns, that there are other options available - i applaud you on all fronts.

Thanks, I have just had a look. I work in child.development centre.and I had noticed the plethora of July and August birthdays. I hope we.are proportionate In our approach and give those summer born mostly boys a chance to mature and catch up before going down the diagnosis route. However as has been explained up thread unfortunately these children can be "turned off" school and therefore become either disruptive or disengaged later on.

Well, conversely I judge anyone who can send a child who was 3 just a few weeks (if that) ago into this shit show of an education system. Particularly if it’s for ‘free childcare.’ If you think that’s the purpose of school you shouldn’t have children.

@misswimpydimple

I get 30 hours free for my children. Tbat continues when they are in nursery / preschool for the year between 4 and 5. How is it more expensive??

@stillwishihadabs exactly, but you have to do what you can and i'm glad you do! More people lile you won't fix the problem but it would make it much MUCH better

Unfortunately sometimes a diagnosis is the only way of securing support for these Dcs. But I think sending fewer developmentally unready 4 year olds to school might reduce this need. Or perhaps not. Some forward thinking schools have given these children 2 reception years which can also help

@stillwishihadabs precisely, and free up time to focus on those with genuine extra needs instead of those who were just not ready at 4 to start school

Hello 👋🏻
Just to add my six pence worth...
I’m a childminder and have looked after children for around 10+yrs. ALL children are different. What works for you, won’t necessarily work for someone else. Don’t assume you know better than the parent. How would you like it if someone did that you?

From my experience, it isn’t necessarily a developmental difference but an emotional one. A way a 5yr old can convey and understand their emotions, is usually way beyond a child of 4yrs and 1month. Now obviously this doesn’t go for every child, but it does for some, and considering you now have to be in shook until you are 18, if you can defer, why not?

@northernrunner this!!
It's impossible to judge academic readiness at 3, though unreadiness may well be evident in many cases but social/emotional maturity is often very obvious - those children may well be prove to be high achievers later in life but if you push them too hard too young some will sink. The fact that others are "fine" proves nothing.

This thread feels like one of those competitive threads for struggling new mums when people helpfully post that their child was sleeping through the night and speaking fluent French by tje time they were 4 weeks old 🙄

Well, conversely I judge anyone who can send a child who was 3 just a few weeks (if that) ago into this shit show of an education system. Particularly if it’s for ‘free childcare.’ If you think that’s the purpose of school you shouldn’t have children

Cheers @hollyswift

My July born daughter would be incredibly bored staying at nursery for another year and 9 months. She has already started to read and write and is desperate to get to school - it’s all she talks about.

None of my parent friends are delaying their summer borns. None at all. So it’s not like everyone suddenly is.

Similarly Dd (October born) was devasted she didn't go to school with her best friend (born in July) at 3 years 10 months. She was fine if a little bored at nursery for another year. But would have been equally fine in reception. Finally went to school at 4yrs 11 months being able to read, count to 50 and do simple arithmetic. She was bored again throughout yr 6, doesn't make it true for all.

@Angela712 when we said we were going to defer our children the nursery said we wouldn’t be automatically entitled to the free hours anymore. If their attending would push up the child to teacher ratio meaning they’d need to get an extra adult in then we wouldn’t get the free hours. I was happy to forfeit this though so just said ‘that’s fine’. Both of them did continue to get the free hours. I don’t know if what I was told was correct or not, but I can see why people would believe it if that’s what they’re being told. (Scotland)

@lampshadelady

Great - no-one is suggesting this is a one suze fits all solution or that all summerborns should be delayed be suse some children, like yours are ready. I think Holly was replying to another poster wjo suggested that some parents would need to start their children at 4 because they can't afford to keep them in nursery for an extra year - hence the free childcare comment. It wasn't a criticism of anyone who chooses to send their child because they are ready.

On that - my 30 hours free childcare covers preschool for the extra year, the same hours and dates as Reception in Primary so it's a moot point. It's no more expensive to keep a child out of school than force them in before they are ready.

I wish my DC were ready, it eould have made the last 6 months, and the next few much easier and less stressful for me fighting for them to be accepted into year R when they are 5.

@stillwishihadabs I had a similar experience, without wanting to sound like a twat I was quite good academically and as a September born I was bored for much of junior school and indeed often gave up.....

3out Things do work differently in scotland depending on age of child when they defer.

In England it’s covered.

Stillwash, if I had to choose between a bored 4 year old or a struggling 4 year old then I’d know which I’d choose. Also, a child who doesn’t feel challenged in the first year or two of school will probably not find this continues for the whole of their schooling, however, a child who struggles for the first couple of years will likely continue to struggle for many years.

Deferring children doesn’t have a negative impact on others in the class. A few posters seem to think the opposite, I’m not sure why.

@lampshadylady - apologies, got your name wrong! That's another point - many schools promise the less abke will not be left behind, the most able will always be stretched to reach their potential. It's just not true. You were bored and switched off, i'm sure other struggled and switched off.