Would you pay back this 10k?

[cantchooseyourfamily]

I'm looking for some advice, I was really ill over the last few years and managed to get treatment overseas that cost almost £50,000. The treatment was somewhat experimental at the time but is now available on the NHS, however I couldn't afford to wait and see if it would start being offered on the NHS so we made the decision that we would pay and I would go abroad for it.

Before I went for the treatment I wasn't sure about going, was worried about leaving my children and was also worried because I was about £10,000 short with being able to pay for it. DH and I have good jobs and are very lucky, we would have been able to get hold of the last 10k within a few months and were prepared to wait until we had it before I went ahead.

However, my mother offered to give me the remaining money and was insistent it was a gift, I asked several times over the following months if I should pay it back and she was insistent that it was fine, it was a gift, she wanted to help, etc. At that point we had the 10k and could have given it back, no issue.

Not that it necessarily matters but she's fairly well off with different companies and a few properties. This all happened over a year ago, I've moved on, am doing well health wise and have not thought about the money much, other than to feel grateful. Now out of nowhere she has messaged saying she's having business problems and wants the money back. I'm so upset, I hadn't factored this in, have my own stuff going on have made investments and purchases this year that I would not have done had I thought this was a loan rather than a gift. If I don't give it to her the family fall out will be huge, with my sister's and mother likely disowning me. On the other hand I think it's a rubbish way to treat me. There's so much more to the backstory but I wasn't raised by my mum and had very little to do with her until I was in my 20's, didn't meet my sister's until they were older and so on. I'm quite sure this would be the end of our fragile relationship but don't know if it might be for the best anyway. I couldn't imagine gifting my children a house deposit or sum of money to help with there wedding or medical treatment and then asking for it back a year later.

I'm very upset and wondering if I should just pay it back or not?

I also can't help remembering times over the last few years when she has paid for very expensive holidays and bought cars and things for her other children, none of which bothered me at the time, I didn't need anything from her and am a bit older. I can't help thinking she won't be asking for those gifts back from her other children and it's just another way in which I'm treated very differently.

soontobe60. There are many treatments and operations that the nhs does not do/offer.

My friends son was diagnosed with a truely horrific neurological condition which the nhs said they can’t do anything and that was it. They went to see a private consultant who did a few more tests and He is now getting treatment which is helping. But it is costing them a fortune.

A family member had to go abroad for an operation which means she can now walk. Nhs said they would not fund the operation but without it she would be in a wheelchair.

Neither treatments/operations were experimental. In the case of the operation allowing her to walk, its been done for years in america and other countries with a very high success rate. It just cost a lot and her family fundraised to pay for it.

Op I think it is very unfair to ask you for the money back when serveral times she said it was a gift.
The money was used for something vital, the money spend on siblings was not.

Even if you give it back to her the relationship is broken. Has she asked your other siblings for money/cars back. ?

whilst we do have enough in a liquid savings account to pay it

Is everyone missing the above line from OP

Your mother needs the money

Pay it back you have it available

I would not offer the gift back. You could suggest a loan but you will require repayment.

OP she is a shitty close family member let alone a terrible mother. In my family I have been both gifted and loaned money by various people. The loans I've asked for (and not been expected to pay them back but have) while the gifts I've been offered unconditionally once it was known what I needed the money for.

I would write her a letter. If you have any written messages saying it was a gift I would get a copy of those to include in it and state that she gifted you the money for your medical treatment so you won't be paying it back. However as she is in financial difficulties you have £x (any amount that is not £10K) you can gift her and enclose a cheque for that sum.

Then go low contact. This means you don't actively seek her out but remain civil if you have to talk or deal with her for any reason e.g. a wedding, a funeral.

Bring your own children up to understand the difference between loans and gifts. In addition make them understand if they loan their sibling money only to do so if they are prepared to write the money off.

I see where you are coming from op, I'd pretty much feel the same.

I'd give it her back but state you thought it was a gift but here you go have it back.

Then I probably would reduce contact as it would piss me off so much.

“I say give it back but not because of what the others are saying
when she gave you the gift it made you feel like you were a part of the family and that you were important and loved, even though for most of your life you have felt like an after thought or like a random stranger to them, she made you think she cared....”

This ^

I had the same sort of thing from my birth mother, whom I met in my late teens, along with my other siblings that remained with the family. It took me years to realise that there was an inner circle and an outer circle, with my DS and I being the outer. When the penny dropped, I went LC.

I have been in a similar situation - parents offered me a sum of money to put a deposit on my first house as a gift. I offered to pay them back but they insisted it was a gift. 15 years later I inherited some money and they demanded it back. They didn’t need it - final salary pensions, paid off mortgage, plenty of savings. I on the other hand was factoring that money into a new house purchase and the purchase would have fallen through if i’d given them the money. So I said no on principle and because of the house purchase and went LC with them for a while. They asked my brother a similar thing and he gave them a cheque (which they didn’t cash£ and refused to speak to them. Things were bad for a year but have now calmed down again, though are not quite the same as before, though they didn’t really apologise to me - I think they did to my brother. I think you need to do what you think is right and not worry too much about the consequences.

Not read whole post.
But from what I can see, she helped you when you were sick.
& now she needs help. No one can predict the future, I'm sure asking you for a repayment wasnt easy for her.
Pay it back, you say you can afford it . Life is too short to be falling out with family over money

Slightly different angle - but can you call her bluff on this? Are you close enough to the other siblings to send them a message (cc DM) to say ‘terrible news, DM is in financial difficulty and needs to raise 10k. She’s generously given us all gifts in the past - can we club together to raise this cash for her’. You could separately state what you’d be able to contribute.

If the OP has a difficult relationship with her mother, she should not have accepted the £10k in the first place - especially as she has said she could have found another way of financing her 'treatment'.

Presumably the mother's financial circumstances have changed in a way she could not have foreseen when she gave the OP the money. It may be a clumsy way of asking, but she is saying she needs help.

OP, you know what the right thing is to do.

But within families needs arise. She’s probably said it in an unfortunate way but if I were her (and if I really was in difficulty - you’d be wise just to check this) why on earth couldn’t I think - ‘I helped them out I wonder if they can help me out now?’ Any reminder of her gift to you is likely to have been unfortunate and raised you hackles - I get that but if you have liquid assets and can help her why wouldn’t you ? This is what I don’t understand. If it were me I would be glad to have sorted out the whole gift situation anyway and not to feel beholden to her given your fragile relationship.
It’s really interesting to read the divergent views on this thread. Perfect example of how we all see these things so differently and why family money causes so much grief.
My own ma used to give me gifts of money when I had need. Because I know my sibling (who had no ‘need’) to be watchful of these things I always said either for her not to or match it to my sibling. Sometimes this meant mum rethought the offer and didn’t gift me something or we both got half of intended gift or similar. Far better that than to have bad feeling or jealousy etc. Of course I can’t ever say anything to my sibling about this as the very fact that I did this would be read that my mum wasn’t planning to gift her anything and there the trouble would start.
No matter what you do good luck and I hope you find a way to have whatever relationship with your mum that you are comfortable with.

You say you have enough liquid money to pay her back?

You say it was a gift and confirmed several times.

She helped you. You help her it’s that easy.

Either a) she does really need help
b) she’s being selfish doesn’t want to sell her items/ get help elsewhere/ treating you differently to your siblings
c) all made up and she just wants her money/jealous of you

In all circumstances I feel you’re morally obligated to help. I would say this even if in an alternate reality you fell out and hated the very sight of each other.

But whilst she’s gone about it in the wrong way. You can do the same if you think it’s option b) / c) this way you get your point across.

Say something along the lines of.

“Thanks for helping me in my time of need. At the time you said it was a gift and on the several occasions after when we offered to pay you back.
Because of this we don’t have the funds readily available. I can get you 5k immediately and can follow on at the end of the month with the other 5k.
Sorry i wish I could help sooner but it’s all tied up at the moment. “

I disagree with all of these posters saying pay back £200 a month. It’s one thing to get your point across its another to basically burn your bridges and not help someone by drip feeding the cash when you have 10k in your bank.

@Justagirlwholovesaboy I had HSCT for MS in Mexico a couple of years ago and that cost us £50k. NHS won't fund it because they say there is not enough proof and too much money is made with the useless dmd offerings even though it has been being done for 20+ years with great success.

OP if it was something like that I really hope it worked for you. It did for me :)

I wouldn’t pay it back. She said it was a gift and it was probably to save you life, wasn’t it? If the relationship isn’t that good anyway with them, have you got much to lose?

I don't think the 10k in liquid savings is relevant. It would be if the mum was in dire financial straits and the siblings (who the mum has also helped financially) couldn't help.

It was a gift, you can't suddenly ask for it back. And anyone with multiple properties can easily raise £10k.

She's not asking you to pay back a loan she is now asking for a gift from you. Just say no OP. She sounds like an awful mother. You offered numerous times beforehand and she made it perfectly clear it wasn't to be paid back.

Can't she ask her other children who she seemingly has given so much more to?

I would give her £10k.

I wouldn't see it as repaying a gift, more that she helped you when you needed it and now you're helping her that she needs help. I know the way she has framed the request for money has been upsetting and she may not win mother of the year, but she came through for you (finally) when you needed financial help, so this is about doing the same for her in return.

What Bungle said, especially this:

"There are some people on here that clearly don't understand toxic relationships and seem to struggle with reading comprehension. I don't see at all that she was there for you when you needed you. Or that you have any obligations towards this woman at all. It sounds to me like she has failed you massively in your childhood. The one time she was there for you, when you really needed help, she is sullying by reneging on her promise. A gift is something given willingly to another without obligation. That is the point. You owe her nothing."

There are some people on here that clearly don't understand toxic relationships and seem to struggle with reading comprehension. I don't see at all that she was there for you when you needed you. Or that you have any obligations towards this woman at all. It sounds to me like she has failed you massively in your childhood. The one time she was there for you, when you really needed help, she is sullying by reneging on her promise. A gift is something given willingly to another without obligation. That is the point. You owe her nothing.

Yes. Some of the replies on this thread are wilfully stupid to an offensive degree.

"I'm sure she wouldn't ask if she didn't need it." Yeah, right. Don't be so fucking ridiculous.

I personally wouldn’t care if she’s being toxic.

The OP is affected enough to post on a public forum about it. So if she doesn’t pay her back it will obviously play on her mind.

I’d pay it back, delete from my life and sleep soundly if she was being toxic.

If she didn’t have the money. Yes I’d tell her sorry it was a gift I don’t have it. But she does. Life’s too short

If she really does need it and you can get it I would give it back. If she is in genuine dire straights then you are effectively helping her with £10,000.

That doesn't mean that I think you should have to, given that it was a gift and that you asked a number of times for clarification.

If you think that she is just being awkward, has changed her mind on a whim and has no desperate need for it then I would tell her that don't have it immediately available. That you asked a number of times about whether it was repayable and that you spent money in the knowledge that you did not have to repay her.

It is right she is asking for it back, she sounds very selfish and entitled.
I would give it back very slowly, please find the strength to cut her from your life.
Get some therapy to deal with been abandoned, cut this unreliable toxic lady from your life.

I would probably try to pay it back. Because of the symbolism of your relationship with her.

I wouldn't want them to have the ammunition of "I needed the money back, but she wouldn't repay me" as the way they make you out to be the unreasonable one. No, I'd pay it back and walk away from them.

Thanks again everyone. I'm finding the different opinions really useful.

The comments about her not really needing it are interesting. I messaged one of my sister's earlier (who is heavily involved in there business) and mentioned that our mother had asked for the money back. She said yes she knew she was going to ask and they have just been awarded a big contract and are worried about financing it. I do believe her need for this money is not at the level of losing a home or not being able to afford heating and more along the lines of needing to finance extra equipment or staff ahead of this contract.

I love the idea of setting up a group chat with her other children and being very concerned and asking how we can all help, would never be able to do it though 😂😂

The relationship is so complex and not a normal mum/daughter relationship at all. If my DH's family needed help we would be doing everything we could to assist. Aside from this money I've had next to nothing in support, either emotionally or financially through my life. It feels like one of the only times she has done something for me is being taken away and I'm pretty gutted about that.