Would you pay back this 10k?

[cantchooseyourfamily]

I'm looking for some advice, I was really ill over the last few years and managed to get treatment overseas that cost almost £50,000. The treatment was somewhat experimental at the time but is now available on the NHS, however I couldn't afford to wait and see if it would start being offered on the NHS so we made the decision that we would pay and I would go abroad for it.

Before I went for the treatment I wasn't sure about going, was worried about leaving my children and was also worried because I was about £10,000 short with being able to pay for it. DH and I have good jobs and are very lucky, we would have been able to get hold of the last 10k within a few months and were prepared to wait until we had it before I went ahead.

However, my mother offered to give me the remaining money and was insistent it was a gift, I asked several times over the following months if I should pay it back and she was insistent that it was fine, it was a gift, she wanted to help, etc. At that point we had the 10k and could have given it back, no issue.

Not that it necessarily matters but she's fairly well off with different companies and a few properties. This all happened over a year ago, I've moved on, am doing well health wise and have not thought about the money much, other than to feel grateful. Now out of nowhere she has messaged saying she's having business problems and wants the money back. I'm so upset, I hadn't factored this in, have my own stuff going on have made investments and purchases this year that I would not have done had I thought this was a loan rather than a gift. If I don't give it to her the family fall out will be huge, with my sister's and mother likely disowning me. On the other hand I think it's a rubbish way to treat me. There's so much more to the backstory but I wasn't raised by my mum and had very little to do with her until I was in my 20's, didn't meet my sister's until they were older and so on. I'm quite sure this would be the end of our fragile relationship but don't know if it might be for the best anyway. I couldn't imagine gifting my children a house deposit or sum of money to help with there wedding or medical treatment and then asking for it back a year later.

I'm very upset and wondering if I should just pay it back or not?

I also can't help remembering times over the last few years when she has paid for very expensive holidays and bought cars and things for her other children, none of which bothered me at the time, I didn't need anything from her and am a bit older. I can't help thinking she won't be asking for those gifts back from her other children and it's just another way in which I'm treated very differently.

You’re technically right it was a gift but now that she has asked for it back I doubt she’s going to see it that way. Money issues can cause people to get bitter and she may try to convince everyone that she was the wronged party.

I would give her the money, remember the experience and distance yourself. You’re never going to get the relationship you probably want with her, it’s sad but at least now you know for sure. You can put boundaries in place and have the relationship on your terms.

I might be wrong, but unless your mum has something in writing to prove you both agreed that the money was a loan, then legally you can't be compelled to pay it back.

What remains is how you feel about it from a personal/ethical point of view. You are clear that it was a gift, you weren't expecting ever to have to pay it back, and you used it for its intended purpose. From that point of view - no, you shouldn't have to pay it back. Plus if you are now going to have to take out an expensive loan to pay it, I don't think you should do that either, unless you can pay off the loan in full when your partner gets his next bonus.

I’m really sorry OP and I wish you the best of luck with everything, but I think you’re going to have to pay it back. I seems that she would have liked to give you the money as a gift, but her circumstances have now changed. You say she runs a business and has a few properties? Many small businesses have been hit very hard due to the uncertainty over Brexit. She may well be facing bankruptcy. And you can only sell property if there is a market to buy it. In so many areas properly prices are falling and people are holding fire on purchasing fearing imminent and long term recession. Things are likely to get worse before they get better.

She may see that £10k as her last resort.
I understand how her behaviour is emotionally triggering for you, given your past, but at least you know where you stand. You don’t need her now and you never really did. You have your own family now, something that many never have and I think you need to look forward and focus on yourself. I wish you all the best.

I would. While I think it is totally shit she has gone back on her word, she is asking for help and she helped you when you were in need. I'd say:

I can pay you back but not immediately. You were 100% clear that the money was a gift on several occasions therefore I do not have the money to hand to pay you back now. I will look into it and get back to you with a payment schedule. In the meantime you might want to ask Besty to sell the car you bought her or Jim to sell the Rolex watch you bought him for a more immediate return of money.

I missed that you could afford to pay her back without getting a loan. In that case it's a bit trickier. I think if it were me and I could afford it, I probably would - I was imagining that you would struggle to pay her back.

I wonder whether she has come to resent the gift as she has seen you expanding your business, investing, making significant purchases as she herself has increasingly financially struggled?

Since you have it to hand in cash,I would repay it. If it will cause you any hardship or vulnerability, suggest instalments.

Money and families, eh? I think you should help her out just as she helped you out. Obviously it’s wrong for her to see it as if you owe her that money (it was a gift!) but from her perspective she helped you out of a tricky situation at a time she could. Things have now changed and she is in need. She is likely to have little idea that you would have difficulty in releasing assets to help her out.
There are a lot of good ides above about a letter setting out payment plans and perhaps seeing if gifts made to other children could also come into the picture.
I don’t agree with those saying you don’t need her in your life. There’s obviously history and there has been inequality of treatment but I don’t see why this situation should make you go Nc with her. Once sorted out you will just be aware that when it comes to money things can get tricky and she has gone back in an agreement. Sounds as if she has needed to.

Op, you had HSCT, didn't you? Can I PM you please about it?

As you have the money, albeit invested elsewhere, I would pay it back.

You may feel resentful about it which is a different matter but I would at least return the money and then decide what I do about the resentment.

You can raise the money to pay her back so do it. Yes it was clearly a gift but I know I couldn't hang on to a gift that someone asked for back, it wouldn't matter what it was. Where you go from here with your relationship is, of course, your choice. I know I could never stay in contact with a parent who did this to me

Ibizama - yes feel free to message me ☺☺

Thanks so much for all the replies I do really appreciate it.

I agree that she maybe has some resentment about things going well which I struggle to relate to. I would be so happy for my children if they were doing well and wouldn't retrospectively be asking for any help I had given them to be paid back.

I suppose I should clarify that the investment I've made in my business was through a loan and the cash we have saved is to repay that loan. We are definitely comfortable but not enough that 10k won't make a difference to us - it certainly will.

Give the money back. No matter what her 'gift' to you has been soured, you'll never feel the same way about her.

She did give you the money when you needed it, and obviously she must be in financial trouble now if she's asking for it back. Whatever she did for your sisters in the past isn't really relevant, as that must have been when she was still flush.

If you refuse to give the money back on principle, then see her losing her business and house, you'll feel pretty rotten. How do you know she's not asking your sisters for money as well?

I would give her the money she is asking for,in instalments if necessary.

Can you ask her for more details of what is going on for her to be asking you for money?

While she has no legal right to ask for it back, I think I’d repay it. She did you a favour when you needed it, and now she’s asking you to return that favour while she needs it.

I wouldn’t pay her back, I agree with you OP. The money was a gift and it’s very bad form to ask for a gift back. You had offered repayment at a time when you could and she rejected the offer. I would explain this to her and personally take the fallout.

Are you certain this request is entirely from her? Is there a chance your sisters have only just found out about the gift and have put pressure on your mother to get it back?
Also, what are they doing to help her in her hour of need? Like other pp, I don't think you have to pay it back as your mother was so clear it was a gift. In your shoes I would pay it back though, just not straight away and not in one go, I would make sure that I said something about her insisting it was a gift, and it would definitely affect my opinion of her.
In the end, though, be realistic about what you want and where your boundaries are.

Don't pay it back, she said it was a gift multiple times and reiterated that when you later offered to repay her.

If this ends the relationship then I would tend to think she's not worth having in your life. She sounds like a really shit "Mother".

I would NOT pay her back in those circumstances.

It was a gift, repeatedly confirmed
AND
it was for a life-changing medical treatment, not a house deposit or any other investment

So she is now in effect asking for a gift from you,
but guilting you by calling it repayment.

With her wealth, it is most unlikely she can't raise 10k by other means

If she has a history of treating you badly, then even if you gifted her the money,
you would likely fall out with her soon for some other reason

Go LC and accept you may end up NC
but don't let her guilt you

I wouldn't pay it back. I had this with ex's mother, she offered to pay for new carpets for my flat before her granddaughter was born...when i had the money i offered her it back several times & she declined it. All of a sudden she then 'needed' it back whilst still spending ££s on crap. She never got it back. On principle.
If she has countless properties then she isn't financially hard up, she could sell. £10k in the scheme of things there is peanuts. You don't get to suddenly decide you want to reclaim a gift...imagine it was a car or a food blender 😂

This is difficult. Does she acknowledge that it was a gift but is now asking you for help in the same way, or is she now gaslighting and pretending it was always a loan? If it’s the latter I would be going low/no contact and either forgetting about the money or paying in low instalments as suited me.

Hmm. It’s a tricky one. Especially because your DH’s bonus could have paid her back very quickly. That’s probably what I have done in your shoes given her previous form for moving the goalposts.

In your current situation I would be honest with her that you don’t have the cash ready, that you believed the money to have been a gift as you had repeatedly clarified at the time. That you will do your best to try and raise the funds since she has asked for help but that it won’t be easy. Begin the conversation and go from there.

She gave you £10K when you really needed it.

Could you treat this as her asking for £10k? How would you react if the treatment money has n bee existed. Would you try and find out why exactly she needed th money and ask your other siblings to pitch in?

It seems unlikely her finances have gone so badly wrong, has she lost all her property?

You don’t have to repay the £10k because it wasn’t a loan. Your mother has asked you to give her £10k. Concentrate on that ask - find it it or she really does need it and why. Find out whether your siblings are helping, and if not why not.

Given her previous wealth, it seems unlikely £10k could be a make or break amount. If she is really in trouble I suspect she would need a lot more than that. However she may be fine and simply be regretting the gift.

I am so sorry you have experi need such poor health, and glad things are better on that front. Your mother did a good thing in helping, but she sounds like a complicated person. A gift is a gift, not a loan,
. Think carefully about whether she needs you to give her this money.

To be clear there is no money to be had back. A gift was given and received.

If your mum is having financial troubles and needs help then I'm sure her daughter would help in any way she can, however pretending this is now a loan is manipulative or she is having memory issues.

Be very careful about redefining this gift as a loan as you will then create a legal liability for it and a precedance in which other items like holidays etc can be called in for payment.

If you do decide to give her 10k let it be a lesson and make sure that you have a record of the payment.

I think on principle you should give her the money.

You have it. She was good to you. She’s your mother.

I’m guessing that you want to use this to punish her for something or control her because there’s clearly some complicated dynamic in the backstory.

Money can destroy relationships, it’s not worth it.

She helped you when you needed it and now she needs help. I would repay.