Would you pay back this 10k?

[cantchooseyourfamily]

I'm looking for some advice, I was really ill over the last few years and managed to get treatment overseas that cost almost £50,000. The treatment was somewhat experimental at the time but is now available on the NHS, however I couldn't afford to wait and see if it would start being offered on the NHS so we made the decision that we would pay and I would go abroad for it.

Before I went for the treatment I wasn't sure about going, was worried about leaving my children and was also worried because I was about £10,000 short with being able to pay for it. DH and I have good jobs and are very lucky, we would have been able to get hold of the last 10k within a few months and were prepared to wait until we had it before I went ahead.

However, my mother offered to give me the remaining money and was insistent it was a gift, I asked several times over the following months if I should pay it back and she was insistent that it was fine, it was a gift, she wanted to help, etc. At that point we had the 10k and could have given it back, no issue.

Not that it necessarily matters but she's fairly well off with different companies and a few properties. This all happened over a year ago, I've moved on, am doing well health wise and have not thought about the money much, other than to feel grateful. Now out of nowhere she has messaged saying she's having business problems and wants the money back. I'm so upset, I hadn't factored this in, have my own stuff going on have made investments and purchases this year that I would not have done had I thought this was a loan rather than a gift. If I don't give it to her the family fall out will be huge, with my sister's and mother likely disowning me. On the other hand I think it's a rubbish way to treat me. There's so much more to the backstory but I wasn't raised by my mum and had very little to do with her until I was in my 20's, didn't meet my sister's until they were older and so on. I'm quite sure this would be the end of our fragile relationship but don't know if it might be for the best anyway. I couldn't imagine gifting my children a house deposit or sum of money to help with there wedding or medical treatment and then asking for it back a year later.

I'm very upset and wondering if I should just pay it back or not?

I also can't help remembering times over the last few years when she has paid for very expensive holidays and bought cars and things for her other children, none of which bothered me at the time, I didn't need anything from her and am a bit older. I can't help thinking she won't be asking for those gifts back from her other children and it's just another way in which I'm treated very differently.

DoingMyBest2010

Have you rtft? The money was a gift. You do not need a reason to not return gifts. Regardless of that, OP has said that she and her husband want to return it anyway, just working out how best to do it when it wasn't part of their financial plan. She has offered to pay in installments.

OP you are making a lot of sense - for anyone who has had abusive parents and craves the love they were never given. The feelings never go away and even when you feel you have accepted them the way they are, every new drama seems to cause all the old feeling to resurface. No one should have to endure what you are going through but I wonder whether your siblings really are receiving the gold standard in parenting like you think. I expect your mother is very good at keeping up appearances.

leaveby10

I agree. Any parent that can treat one child very differently from another, will also be playing the others off against each other, have a favourite, a least favourite, use guilt tactics to get her way etc. It's text book. She may buy her other children things but I bet if you had a real conversation with them, if they actually admitted the truth of what daily life with her is like, there would be lots of issues. Not that this is good, but please don't think it's just you that she treats badly. She has a personality type that means she can't help herself behaving like this to many people around her, especially those who should be closest. You will never know where you are with someone like this because they change the goalposts constantly.

It's very difficult. I accepted bad treatment for years by my parents even once I knew the problem lay with them. You seek their approval even though you know their ways of doing things are wrong. They make you feel like it's you that has the issue and its awful to have in your life. They twist things and lie.

You know what good relationships look like, you have that with your husband and your in laws. I really think you should go NC, she doesn't deserve you. I would also leave it for your siblings to contact you, they know that what she is doing is wrong. They need to speak up, if they don't and you try to discuss it with them, they will be under her 'power' as they haven't yet accepted what she is. You will then be blamed for causing more issues.

Pay the money back, if it makes you feel more at ease, but then enjoy the good relationships in your life as I guarantee that the one with your mother will never improve and you will waste so much time and energy on it.

YANBU to be upset but if you can afford to I would definitely pay her back and be done with it.

I don't think she is capable of being the mother you want and it is quite possible she is not a great mother to your siblings either.

The most important thing is your own family and your mental and physical health. From a difficult start you have built yourself a good adult life so get rid of this damaging issue and invest in your own well being. Paying her gives you back control - from then on do things on your own terms and invest in yourself.

You might find counselling would also be a very good way for you to come to terms with this difficult time in your life.

Good luck.

I can't believe the callous way people are writing to someone obviously in pain.

@sophe

It is irrelevant what else she has spent her money on. You had it, had the benefit of it and now she is in need of it. You can afford it, pay it back. You do not have to continue to associate with her though.

Sigh. Have you RTFT? OP cannot pay the money back in full as it would mean jeopardising her business and her staff's livelihoods.

She does NOT have to pay it back at all as it was a gift but she is willing to pay in instalments. OP clearly has a lot more compassion than you and other posters like you.

And your charitable advice 'You do not have to continue to associate with her though' is so condescending.

OP l am really happy for you that you have a great marriage and relationship with your in laws. I also think it was fortunate for you that you didn't spend your whole life with this woman who has no right to be called your Mother. You may not agree with me

I'm glad to hear that you're not going to jeopardise your business by using the money set aside for it.

Despite her rewriting of history, you said her husband knew about the gift, so just ignore that. Just work out how best you can pay this money, with as little disruption to your finances, put it in writing and set up a standing order, and then forget about her.

I'm so sorry you're being treated like this.

What a shitty thing to do, especially when it was the only nice thing she had ever done for you before. Personally I'd stop engaging with her, and pay the money back to the company (not her) at £800 per month (not £1000 - too round) if you can afford it.

This is a horrible situation, how rubbish you have to go through it. But ues give her the money back if you can still. There's no point engaging in anger and bitterness over it all, she obviously has issues they don't have to ve yours. Give it out of love and remember this situation for the future.

She just gets worse, hey.

I'm glad that you and your DH have worked out a plan to get the money back to her in stages, not because she deserves it (she doesn't) but because it's like a hot coal that you've been given and you need to get rid of it again.

She's not interested in you or your family by the sound of it - so I don't think it will make any material difference to you and yours if you do cut her off after this. Hopefully it won't affect your relationship with your siblings, depending on how much in thrall they are to her - and how much interest they have in you too.

I do totally understand your wanting to have a relationship with your birth family - but are they actually people you want to know and have in your life? That's a point to think about - I guess you've probably already talked about that with your counsellor, hey.

You're doing really well with this, despite your counsellor not being around - your DH sounds like a great man and very supportive, which is just what you need now. Stay strong - you've got this. xx

Oh yes - and 100% send the money back to her company with a clear paper trail, not to her personally.

Sounds like ,it's not what been said to you ,but what's been said to the relatives.Is there any contact with them ?If not pay it back in a few instalments and make sure you let them know about it .A bit of the Catherine Tate grandmother character, I'd say here maybe .Always remember where's there's a will there's a relative.

Oh OP it’s just getting worse

I think you now need to leave emotion out of it and deal with it from a solely business point of view. If your mum is guilty of misappropriating company funds to gift you this money she could also be facing criminal charges which may explain her current rewrite of past events.

I would go for a very business like approach. Get together all messages from your mother that mentioned the money, especially any old ones referring to it as a gift. The inconsistencies in her narrative should be immediately obvious. I would then cut her from your life and deal solely with the accountant if you chose to pay it back. At least that way you’ll be dealing with a professional rather than an emotional mess.

All the very best of luck

Families get so arsey about money it’s untrue. On principle you shouldn’t have to pay it back and I probably wouldn’t tbh.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago but with a good friend of mine. He gifted me money I needed for something when I was a struggling student with young DC and he was well off so that money meant nothing to him. About two years later he fell into some financial trouble after he had decided to go travelling, basically he pissed most of his money up the wall. He asked me for the money back, I was still a struggling student and just didn’t have it. Offered it in instalments of £20 a week which actually would’ve still crippled me at the time but he refused, said he needed it all right now. I haven’t spoken to him since and didn’t give him any money because I didn’t have it all in one lump sum like that and he was a prick about it. That was over much, much less than 10k. DP ‘owes’ his DF close to 10k from his travelling days but if his DF suddenly asked for it back we wouldn’t be able to stump up the cost whatsoever.

It was a gift, you can’t ask for a gift back and most regular people don’t just have that sort of money lying around.

That's so sad, OP.

I wouldn't repay the money now, after your last update. And obviously don't try to engage with her any more. If the company needs it, or needs to speak to you, they'll contact you, but I wouldn't bother being proactive and chasing them.

Your latest updates are so sad. I feel so sorry for you. How can she suddenly rewrite history?! How did this money transfer if she knew nothing about it?! I think she's behaved very badly. I hope you still manage to salvage a relationship with your siblings still.

Sounds like there's a lot more to this than just a simple case of your Mother gave you money then asked for it back claiming it had always been a loan... A common thread in my experience.
I'm sure you're aware this is potentially a legal issue, if anyone wants to take it along that road, hopefully not.
She claims it was a loan. You claim it was a gift and I believe you. However, your Mother is now in need - is she really? Whatever the reasons she is now putting in a bid to recoup the money.
No doubt this will have thrown up all the little niggles and memories and suspicions and insecurities that you will no doubt harbour since you were the one child let down by her in the past, lets just say your child-mother relationship was hampered. I expect you feel let down by her now - that's just a hunch.
What do you do? I think you need to go and see her face to face. You will be able to guage the developing situation better. You shared your medical hassle with her so she could share her financial hassle with you and you can get onto some firm ground with her, since you sound as if you are on very fragile ground at present. You can explain your financial position and rather than get into a dispute over 'whether a gift/loan' steer the conversation onto what is actually going on for your Mum and in what way can you help her because you can't just pull 10K out of a black hat just like that, this has startled you and it has caused you to think over what has gone on in the past so in the name of saving the relationship from a serious nose-dive because rightly or wrongly, you have been feeling let down by this, so you are here to negotiate a way forward that is agreeable to both of you. You'll get the measure of your Mother and be able to decide how to proceed from there. She may have done this because she isn't getting her drama needs met or indeed she is up a creek financially and desperate. Regardless, this is a huge invitation into a dialogue with you, no need to turn it into a drama, guns at dawn or riding off into the black forest... Just talk with her and have a heart to heart and have an attitude of 'I'm here to help' - this is a golden opportunity to get to know your Mother so much more and both of you can come out of it with a stronger bond. My simple advice is just don't hand over 10K, my opinion is - she has a lot to answer for and how dare she do this to you and put you in this position, I wonder what the others have had to say about it, but ... needs must and as I say, it's an invitation into dialogue atleast. Goodluck with her.

This is so sad to read OP.
I’m very much in agreement with many posters, and your DH.
Pay it back, in instalments, you don’t want her to have that over you.
Her reactions sound unhinges, but rewriting history is just a weekend hobby to certain type of people.

To all the posters saying ‘she helped you, why ever would you not repay the favour?’ I envy you the healthy relationships you obviously have with your mothers/family

I very much doubt you will hear the end of it even if u paid it all back tomorrow. They would probably still blame you and may respect you even less. They might even see it as you admitting it’s right to pay it back. I think you may feel weak and resentful if you did (I would anyway). But you need to go with whatever you feel is right.

My friend has a narcissistic parent and the only time they showed respect was when my friend properly stood up to them without becoming an emotional wreck. My friend also had back up from an ally there who backed her up in a very matter of fact sort of way.

This is your chance to feel more in control imo. See it as an opportunity to feel stronger moving forward and have a healthier relationship even if that means less contact.

Just as a side point, is there any chance that they feel guilty deep down for their treatment of you and gave you the money when they thought you may have something life threatening (and would have a clearer conscience if the worst happened), and now you are ok and also have a successful business etc they feel a bit differently? I may be totally wrong here, just wondering.

It would be interesting to see who makes contact first, birth family or accountant.

Claiming no memory of the bank transfer, could the OP's mother be trying a fraud accusation? OP will you be getting some legal advice?

Ps omg i just read your last message. She sounds nuts and you are the scapegoat. Its not personal, not your fault. What would your therapist say?! Surely that you cannot continue a relationship with her right now. Be direct and ask her outright if she is accusing you of fraud. If the answer is yes then you should have a consultation with a lawyer and arm yourself with legal information. I very much doubt that all involved would be willing to state in court that you forced her to transfer the cash under knifepoint or using bank details fraudulently (an it only just being noticed!!)

It sounds like you are desperately trying to cling onto an abusive relationship because you feel having a relationship with your abusive mother is better than not having a relationship with her. That is not true, it is hard but you will get over it. Pay the money back or not, whatever you feel most comfortable with but run away as fast as you can. This relatio ship is only going to give you pain. If it were a friend or a partner treating you like this, would you accept it? Sending you love, it will be hard but it will be better!

So sorry OP that your mother is rewriting history. But is further evidence of her toxicity and narcissism. It's textbook. I'm sure she felt great about herself and told everyone how wonderful she was when she gave this gift.

Anyway you are right that you will never get the mother you deserve. She is incapable of being that. Mummyofalittledragon explained it really well how she can't accept giving you away as that would put her in a bad light, so not dealing with the guilt, she puts it on you and you're always the bad guy. But it's nothing that you've done and the issue is with her, not you. So pleased you have a lovely husband and in laws. In future put your energy and love into them and your dc and only give this woman what you can easily afford emotionally.

For what it's worth you sound lovely