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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

James Bulger

567 replies

Monty27 · 03/01/2019 07:32

Hang your head in shame Vincent Lambre.
You low life creep.
Anyone?

OP posts:
DeepanKrispanEven · 03/01/2019 11:18

What is the purpose do you think?
Fame?

You're making that assumption, OP, because you want to condemn the entire project, and therefore can't admit to any possibility that the motivation could be anything else. Is it not at least equally possible that the purpose is what it says on the tin - to try to understand why it happened, not least so that that understanding can help to prevent any repetition?

CountessVonBoobs · 03/01/2019 11:21

Why not just start a thread entitled 'I Am A Much Better Human Being Than Vincent Lambre', OP?

BertrandRussell · 03/01/2019 11:22

“ there are cases where monsters have grown up in genuinely loving, stable homes. Just born evil.”

Are there? Who?

potatoscone · 03/01/2019 11:26

Those children were victims of long term abuse and neglect. More needs to be done to humanize them and highlight the devastating impact of abuse and neglect. They were let down, as are many children still who should not be in the care of their parents but remain so because of overstretched and underfunded services. This does not in any way retract what they did but it should contextualize it.

Yes. Yes they were.

Those of you calling the killers demons etc. - what if your own child did something truly awful? Would you denounce them as demons and never want anyone ever to try and explain why they did what they did?

I probably would tbh. But my children haven't had the horrific upbringing that Thomson and Venables did. So it would be out of nowhere, unlike these boys. There would be no explanation.

I do believe that some people are truly just evil; but at the same time, how those boys lived in the short 10 years before this happened was not a normal loving family situation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending what they did, but a little bit of understanding their lives goes a long way.

To clarify, I haven't seen the film so don't know the 'angle'. Just responding to comments.

Bluelady · 03/01/2019 11:28

I've just read an interview with Lambre who says the only people who have issue with the film are those who haven't seen it. Having just watched the four minute trailer, I can see why that would be the case. I want to see the entire film now, harrowing though it will undoubtedly be.

sashh · 03/01/2019 11:29

sash If you can point out something in this film that hasn't already been identified and discussed by the media, legal experts and academics over the past few decades please feel free to post it.

  1. I have not seen the film

  2. I have seen no media coverage that is anything other than,"they are evil", no media coverage of any academic discussion.

We need to take a long hard luck at a society that creates a situation where this can happen. Just because it hasn't happened again doesn't mean it wont.

brizzledrizzle · 03/01/2019 11:33

A beautiful little boy’s life was taken, but two other young lives were lost too

They made that choice. James Bulger didn't. Their parents, by all accounts, can be held responsible for part of that.

JillScarlet · 03/01/2019 11:37

OP, why didn’t you title this thread ‘Vincent Lambre ‘. How are you so confident that a grieving traumatised mother isn’t distressed to see her child’s name at the top of a thread when the thread is actually about the actions of a film maker, or the convicted, or any other aspect of the case?

Aren’t you using the name to draw attention to your thread and outrage?

IrmaFayLear · 03/01/2019 11:38

Given the success of Making a Murderer and the fame and fortune of those involved in its production, I expect that thousands of aspiring film makers will be poring over every murder case to see what juicy material is out there. And the more controversial the better.

I (guiltily) enjoy a true crime as much as the next person, but... trial or even exoneration by documentary film maker is unsettling.

Looking at how viewers were manipulated by MaM (and you should see the nutcases there are on Reddit), I am not sure these documentaries are of any moral worth. They are just ghoulish entertainment.

Horrormommy · 03/01/2019 11:41

Am curious to see it but yes the family should have been consulted. And those 2 evil boys have very little humanity

Triglesoffy · 03/01/2019 11:42

I am not sure these documentaries are of any moral worth. They are just ghoulish entertainment.

This.

CountessVonBoobs · 03/01/2019 11:44

I'm not sure saying it 'hasn't happened again' is even true. Children have been killing for hundreds of years. There haven't been huge numbers more murders by under 13s in the UK since, but there have been some (for instance, the children who killed Damilola Taylor were 13 and 12 at the time). Two 13 and 14 year old girls committed a murder in Hartlepool in 2014. And there have been many others worldwide.

In many ways, I think the most unusual thing about the Bulger case was the press coverage, and the judicial process.

jessstan2 · 03/01/2019 11:46

Countessvonboobs (lovely name), I agree with you 100%.

FayFortune · 03/01/2019 11:47

The film Spotlight took a an awful subject and handled it well I thought. It was very thought provoking and sensitive without feeling exploitative.

SummerGems · 03/01/2019 11:48

Ok let’s be honest here. The reason why people might not forget the James Bulger murder (and actually, it was over a generation ago now so actually, plenty of people are not going to know the details anyway,) wasn’t because the murder itself was so horrific, it was because the murder was committed by two ten year olds and the law was changed specifically to allow society the ability to demonise them.

There have been worse murders since, committed by Harold shipman for instance, Fred West, Ian Huntley but we conveniently forget about those because they weren’t children, even though in some cases their victims were.

It’s very easy to demonise two children instead of having to ask the questions which so many in society don’t want to have to ask, ie. how it happened that two ten year olds reached a point of murdering a child one day.

Because regardless of whether they had bad home lives, the reality is that you don’t just wake up one morning and think “oh I know, I think I’ll go out and abduct and murder a child,”. There will have been signs that something was very, very wrong in these children’s behaviour long before it got to the point of those children murdering that two year old. In the same way society asks how a baby such as baby P can slip through having been noticed as being neglected before it got to the point he was killed, so society should also be asking how it happened that the behaviour of two children slipped through being noticed before they killed another child.

But it was far easier to turn a blind eye and to change the law to allow society to demonise them instead of to ask the questions as to where society had gone wrong.

These were children who were two young to vote, too young to have sex, too young to drink, drive, get married, even buy a lottery ticket,and yet they suddenly became adults because they committed a crime? Why is that? Because they suddenly grew up? No it was because trying them as children and admitting that others will have had a part to play in them ending up where they did would mean asking difficult questions. So better to turn them into monsters than to face the reality that they’d been failed by society to the extent that although they were responsible for the crime they committed, others were responsible for the fact that their behaviour had reached the level where they were able to commit that crime unchecked.

Bluelady · 03/01/2019 11:50

Absolutely @SummerGems.

BertrandRussell · 03/01/2019 11:56

SummerGems- so very true. We need scapegoats that we can “other”. That’s why there’s always such a focus on stranger danger when the real danger to children is among our friends and family.

SweetLathyrus · 03/01/2019 12:00

PPs have asked if anyone has seen the film. I have. It has, to my knowledge only been screened at one UK film festival.

The film is a difficult watch, as you would expect, and yes it does humanise the boys, but it does not elicit sympathy for them. In fact there are some chilling lines from the interview transcripts taken in light of the subsequent actions of Venables in particular.

Not all of the interview transcripts have been used, because not all of them are in the public domain - four were considered too graphic and disturbing. This makes what is dramatised all the more difficult.

If we seek to dehumanise those who commit the most heinous acts, then as a society we are abdicating responsibility, suggesting that evil exists and there is nothing we can do with it.

Bowchicawowow · 03/01/2019 12:02

Are you kidding SummerGems? Do you know how much work has been done with these boys since they were found guilty? If they have been demonised by anybody, it has been the press, but that is par for the course. They most extensive therapy has been provided to these boys. They haven't simply been locked in a cell and called monsters. Since then, countless people have been asking serious questions about how we can avoid these tragedies in the future. A previous Labour Government set up SureStart Centres to intervene with families who need help at an early stage. Social workers and the Police work hard to avoid the sort of issues these boys had. Just because you haven't put your mind to these things in the past few decades doesn't mean that people haven't been working non stop to try to avoid the same problems happening again. It's a fucking shame that these people get ignored whilst this director will get to put on a nice suit and collect an Oscar Hmm

JillScarlet · 03/01/2019 12:04

SummerGems and BertrandR: yes.

ADastardlyThing · 03/01/2019 12:07

I turned good morning Britain over this morning for giving air time to that disgusting person. Absolutely vile, he should be ashamed.

CountessVonBoobs · 03/01/2019 12:10

You realise he hasn't actually won the Oscar yet, right, bowchica? He's been nominated. And yes, people absolutely do get recognised and rewarded for grass roots community work (check the NY Honours lists), although in the case of governments it's kind of their job anyway.

Filmmaking might not strike you as intrinsically noble but good and sensitive media can play a very valuable role in educating and informing people. Consider the effects of the social pressure created by Blackfish. It can also be negative and misleading, of course, viz. Making a Murderer.

NonExistentFox · 03/01/2019 12:14

the law was changed specifically to allow society the ability to demonise them

Was it? I thought it was changed afterwards because it had allowed this.

Bluelady · 03/01/2019 12:14

Why is he a vile man who should be ashamed @ADastardlyThing?

potatoscone · 03/01/2019 12:18

I turned good morning Britain over this morning for giving air time to that disgusting person. Absolutely vile, he should be ashamed.

Based on what?

If you haven't heard what he had to say, how can you form an opinion?