James Bulger

[Monty27]

Hang your head in shame Vincent Lambre.
You low life creep.
Anyone?

Do psychopaths really only come from severely dysfunctional families?
No. Not all psychopaths are sadistic killers either.

However, these boys were a fatal mix of personality disorder, emotional and economic deprivation, abuse etc and what they did that day was extreme. Reading the full details is so disturbing it's hard to humanize them but what has been learned?

Do psychopaths really only come from severely dysfunctional families?
I don't think either of the 'boys' has a diagnosis of psychopathy but certainly coming from a severely dysfunctional family where abuse, neglect and trauma is commonplace massively increases the chance a child will develop not only psychological disorder/s but also cognitive impairments.

I do see what you are saying and in a way I agree. I can’t think of anything I would want to watch less than that. We know the story. We know what happened. There is NOTHING that can humanise those vile evil monsters.

However, looking at it rationally, where do we draw the line. I really doubt Teresa Halbach’s family were consulted beforehand by the documentary makers checking it was okay to do what they have done. Doubtless there are hundreds of other examples.

A beautiful little boy’s life was taken, but two other young lives were lost too

How exactly were their lives lost? They've been released. (yes one keeps going back into prison because he's a paedophile)

He's done it for publicity.

Hardly. The film has been out for 8 months and I'd be prepared to bet that few people on this thread had heard of it before.

'We were born of risen apes, not fallen angels, and the apes were armed killers besides. And so what shall we wonder at? Our murders and massacres and missiles, and our irreconcilable regiments? Or our treaties whatever they may be worth; our symphonies however seldom they may be played; our peaceful acres, however frequently they may be converted to battlefields; our dreams however rarely they may be accomplished. The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. We are known among the stars by our poems, not our corpses.' Robert Ardrey

i often wonder when I see these threads. would you want these men in your home, near your kids? living in your street?“
I don’t. That’s why we should be doing everything we can not to make any more of them.

@NaiceShoes because they will never be the people they might have become had they themselves not been victims of abuse and neglect.

"Nothing can ever humanise those two demons who did that to poor little James."
Ok here is where we have gone badly wrong as a society, demonising. Children are not born wicked or with all these ways of cruelty. Something very terrible happened to at least one of these boys. We cannot change the terrible things that they did or the horrendous pain caused to the family. What we can do is look at where this came from. I know nothing about this film. The subject sickens me, and for that reason might choose to avoid it, but if it shines a light on the reason these children were damaged enough to do this it would be a good thing. It has been suggested more than once that one of them had suffered sexual abuse. I am not saying all victims go on to abuse, but some do and we should be doing something about it

Venables and Thompson both had neglected and violent childhoods in dysfunctional families.

How does it automatically ‘glamourise’ or invoke ‘sympathy ‘ to look at how the worst atrocities happen?

Those of you saying ‘plenty of other kids in Bootle led similiar lives and didn’t become murderers’ , well let’s hope there is no link whatsoever between a violent neglected dysfunctional upbringing and the potential to become abusuve because then the onward march of austerity and the cutting of child services, CAMHS, social services, trained youth workers etc etc won’t matter, will it?

The director is gathering publicity now as it’s been shortlisted for an Oscar.

there are two more sets of grieving parents left behind trying to make sense of what their sons have been capable of doing

The linked article included this quote, although I dispute the inclusion of more I do think it is worth experts looking into what the boys did and what led them to do it so they can see how best to provide support to troubled youths/children who may be at risk of committing crimes in the future. A film isn't the place to do it though.

I think it is an important case to be studied from a sociological and criminology viewpoint. I don't know anything about the film.

In answer to the question about other cases where the media have made films dramatising the events at a later date - we have a fairly high profile historic serial killer back and fairly closely-related in the family tree... our family weren't consulted at all when ITV made a big serial dramatising the life and murders a few years back. Wouldn't have expected to have been to be fair - but the heads-up would have been nice for my father who is closely linked enough to be fairly easily traceable when media interest reappeared (and it's one where the family members were the victims so linked in both the killer and victim side of it).

It wouldn't be so bad if it was a documentary based on facts. But this is a film. Albeit a short film.
What is the purpose do you think?
Fame?
Yuk

But it is based on the facts.

People can read the facts if they want to. Why make a film other than to further the career of the director?

Whilst what they did is unimaginable and horrific I can never fathom why there is no hatred towards the parents of T and V who clearly didn't bring them up well and exposed them to some horrific stuff which then led to them becoming massively fucked up enough to commit such a hideous act!

Children are not born wicked or with all these ways of cruelty.

That’s your belief. While not nearly as common, there are cases where monsters have grown up in genuinely loving, stable homes. Just born evil.

At the conclusion of the trial moanymoaner the trial judge was highly critical of the parents. I believe they have all left Liverpool because of the hatred towards them.

I know they haven't asked in other cases from personal experience.

People do a google for an interesting case, make a film or whatever and don't stop to think of the people involved who may then find themselves being hounded by the media and horrendous things dragged up.

I've known two high profile killers in the uk. Both well enough to say that I never thought in a million years they'd do what they did. When convicted people came from far and wide to damn them. Meanwhile those local were just in shock. I moved away from both because we'd have "tourists" from round the world coming to see where it happened. Every now and then someone will make a film on tv or elsewhere and it will be dragged up again as I occaisonally will mention where I've lived before and suddenly I'm back where I was then being asked why I didn't know etc.

Sometimes you don't know.

Now I believed they're medically labelled and I know both were on the spectrum.

I honestly don't think there is an answer to "why". I know people don't want to hear that but I don't. Lots of things can push people to do horrific things, but the same things can happen to others who don't do them. I have the same diagnosis as one of those killers, similar background. Does that mean I'll become one as well? I'm nearly the age when he did what he did.

While not nearly as common, there are cases where monsters have grown up in genuinely loving, stable homes. Just born evil.

If you believe this, then surely you can't blame them? Because they're just "born that way" and it's not their fault?

there are cases where monsters have grown up in genuinely loving, stable homes.

And no, there aren't. Appearances can be deceptive.

Children are not born wicked or with all these ways of cruelty.

I believe they can be born with predispositions towards particular types of behaviour and the nurture they receive simply tips the already precarious balance.