Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

James Bulger

567 replies

Monty27 · 03/01/2019 07:32

Hang your head in shame Vincent Lambre.
You low life creep.
Anyone?

OP posts:
BlooperReel · 03/01/2019 12:18

I watched the trailer, whilst I do not object to trying to understand why this happened, what is horrifying is the dramatisation of James' last walk with those two boys, it is beyond cruel, is unnecessary and highly insensitive to James' family.

If Vincent Lambe had an ounce of compassion for James and his family, he would not have included such emotive shots.

Bowchicawowow · 03/01/2019 12:21

Countess I work in the media and I know how it can do noble work. I also know why nobody else has touched the Bulger story and how this director will profit with the attention this film is attracting. He hasn't had much of a career to date but that will all change now.
As for the NY Honours, do you really believe that everybody who has worked in improving the lives of children who have tough starts has received a gong? They really haven't.

Bluelady · 03/01/2019 12:21

Why? Because not using the core of the entire narrative would somehow make it unhappen?

toddlepod · 03/01/2019 12:22

The poor parents. My heart goes out to them.

HoppingPavlova · 03/01/2019 12:22

*“ there are cases where monsters have grown up in genuinely loving, stable homes. Just born evil.”

Are there? Who?*

Off the top of my head and thinking of famous cases you could argue that people like Bundy and Darhmer fit.

Darhmer, people are so keen to find fault with the family (to fit the view that kids are not born evil), that it has been claimed his mother was at fault for not breastfeeding and therefore depriving him of vital attention.

Bundy, it could be argued did have an unusual background in that he was bought up by grandparents believing they were parents, however it’s recorded that he started displaying psychopathic tendencies from toddlerhood and well before he could learn/understand his unusual family dynamic. Maybe he wasn’t breastfed either?

There has been a lot of work done in regards to brain structure with criminal psychopaths and it seems to lead to there being deviations that ultimately pertain to DNA as opposed to any insult that could be caused in development. A clinic in my state has also done work with kids that distraught families bring in, loving families very distressed at what they are seeing in their very young children who obviously have a problem in this regard and they are seeking help. These are not families kicking back on the crack pipe or hiding bad behaviour in a closet keeping their kids away from professional help for fear of something untoward coming out. MRIs of these kids brains generally match the typical profile of criminal psychopaths. I’m overdue for bed now but will drag up names and studies tomorrow and post. There’s a lot of interesting work done in this area that explains why certain aspects of criminality/behaviour runs in families (genetic as opposed to environment exposure) and for people where there is no obvious cause for criminally psychopathic behaviour.

As for treatment for these kids, I think the jury may still be out but again I will drag around for this tomorrow. From memory one group found the love bomb approach (from families who recognise there is something desperately wrong and are trying everything possible to turn it around) to be positive in regards to later behaviour for some of the kids but I don’t think this was representative enough to be seen as a ‘cure’. Many years ago I was talking about this to a psychiatrist (our discussion was about adults though) and his view was to simply lock them away and throw away the key, that there was absolutely nothing else that could be done to truly keep people safe. I think there are a lot of different opinions out there from people who have experience with these people.

SummerGems · 03/01/2019 12:23

The professionals have done work with them but society has not.

In the aftermath of the crime the law was changed in order that these children (previously not considered to be of a responsible criminal age) could be tried not only in their capacity as children but as adults.

They were driven to court in prison vans where the public banged on the van every morning calling for justice.

After the trial these two ten year olds were named in order that society could continue to demonise them. And this meant that once they were released they had to be given new identities in order that the same society did not harm them.

John Venables has gone on to commit further crimes but he is not demonised for those crimes rather for the fact he was jb’s killer iyswim when actually many sex offenders do have previous for other crimes....

ADastardlyThing · 03/01/2019 12:28

Obviously I heard some of it before I realised what it was about.

He said he didn't ask Denise about it because he knew she'd say no and it wouldn't be made. What a surprise, a man didn't bother asking a woman, the mother, what she thought about him making a film to garner sympathy for the murderers of her child because he didn't want her to say no.

But I'm sure he's totes a lovely guy really Hmm

CountessVonBoobs · 03/01/2019 12:31

Of course I don't believe that everyone who does valuable work with disadvantaged youth gets fairly rewarded, bow. But it's not a zero-sum game. Both arenas have their ways that people get rewarded and one receiving reward doesn't take away from the others. Nor am I sure no one in the media has touched the Bulger case. There's been documentary coverage and many, many books. Jonathan Trigell was well-known to have written Boy A in response, which was filmed and widely shown. Vincent Lambre's short film didn't get covered when it was first released. It's getting covered now because the AAMP has singled it out as being of high quality and worth by nominating it.

potatoscone · 03/01/2019 12:34

What a surprise, a man didn't bother asking a woman, the mother, what she thought about him making a film to garner sympathy for the murderers

He explicitly said it was not to gain sympathy. Why are you trying to change what happens to suit your opinion?

Bluelady · 03/01/2019 12:35

The film wasn't made to garner sympathy. Lambre is quite explicit on that point as you'd know if you hadn't turned off the interview.

Bowchicawowow · 03/01/2019 12:41

No filmmaker has dramatised the story before now. There is a reason for that. The whole episode has been well documented. Anybody who wants to know the story can read the books that have already been written. Denise Fergus will be upset by this film and that is enough reason as far as I am concerned to argue that it shouldn't have been made.

ADastardlyThing · 03/01/2019 12:42

Not changing anything? It is my opinion that he's done it to garner sympathy (sorry, humanise them, as if we didn't know they are already human). Further, from what I've read the detective on the case at the time has said some parts are untrue, such as making out the two were treated badly during the process.

It's also my opinion that he's a disgusting person to have done this and I hope it blows up in his face and is a career ender.

It is a fact that he didn't ask the mother what she felt about it because he didn't want her to say no to him.

potatoscone · 03/01/2019 12:49

It is my opinion that he's done it to garner sympathy

Your opinion doesn't back up your opinion though. Only the facts can do that.

busybarbara · 03/01/2019 12:49

Pretty sure none of the "true crime" podcasts we're all addicted to get approval first.

Also, why not explore other angles of a case like this? The murderers in this case were only young kids themselves, which opens up a lot of questions about how we deal with children and their ethics.

Fairylea · 03/01/2019 12:50

vimeo.com/277662428

Not sure if this will change opinions for anyone. I hope the link works, this is a link to the trailer and also 3 scenes from the film.

Bluelady · 03/01/2019 12:56

Apparently the film doesn't portray the freshly painted interview rooms with crisps and soft drinks on the table. Nothing about the film's content being untrue at all.

ADastardlyThing · 03/01/2019 12:59

You know what opinion means, right? Doesn't have to be formed based on fact?

In this case I have formed my opinion based on his use of the word 'humanise' (normally used in the context of trying to make something or someone appear more normal and likeable) and that he admits he wouldn't want the film to be made if it was him, and he explicitly said he didn't ask permission because he knew the mum would say no and then it wouldnt have been made. And based on what one of the detectives has said about how the investigation is portrayed in it.

Therefore, it is my opinion that he is scum.

(If anything since coming on this thread and reading more about what he said in the interview it's made me feel even more contempt for this person, in a way I was hoping I was just being knee jerk about it)

Bowchicawowow · 03/01/2019 13:00

Denise Bulger is appalled and hurt by the existence of this film. This happened to her as a mother, her ds, her family. If the interview of Vincent Lambe on GMB is anything to go by she is also twice as clever, twice as articulate and twice as emotionally intelligent as this man. However, she is a working-class woman from Bootle, Liverpool and therefore her opinion counts for fuck all compared to a white, male filmmaker and his fawning audience.

NonExistentFox · 03/01/2019 13:08

In the aftermath of the crime the law was changed in order that these children (previously not considered to be of a responsible criminal age) could be tried not only in their capacity as children but as adults.

I don't think it was, it was already at 10 and that was too young to begin with.

FayFortune · 03/01/2019 13:13

Hear,hear Bowchica.

ADastardlyThing · 03/01/2019 13:14

Great post bowchicawow

Bluelady · 03/01/2019 13:19

Opinion doesn't have to be based on fact? Let's hope you never get called for jury service @ADastardlyThing.

potatoscone · 03/01/2019 13:21

You know what opinion means, right? Doesn't have to be formed based on fact?

But you can't say you don't like someone because he did X, when X is your opinion, and not what they actually did.

No?

BlooperReel · 03/01/2019 13:29

Why? Because not using the core of the entire narrative would somehow make it unhappen?

Because James' last walk, the cctv footage, his outfit, all probably haunt his poor family, especially his parents. Why compound their grief in this way? If the focus is on why they did it, do we need to see that? It does not need to be so visceral.

ADastardlyThing · 03/01/2019 13:34

I have been on a jury blue lady, twice, and each time formed my judgement based on the facts presented to me. I understand jury service.

And potato I have only given my opinion that he is a horrible individual and have stated why I think that and why i have interpreted things the way i have. That's all I can do really (and all that's required to constitute an opinion).

Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)