James Bulger

[Monty27]

Hang your head in shame Vincent Lambre.
You low life creep.
Anyone?

You should also boycott newspapers and websites as they have made alot of money on the case.

This website is making money from us discussing it.

@Consolidated, Denise Fergus herself said what I reported. I tend to believe her, she doesn't come across as the kind of woman who would allow anyone to censor what she reads.

Do people really believe nobody should be allowed to discuss, report or review an event that is such a huge part of our cultural psyche? I absolutely think this murder and our reactions to it are things that need to be discussed and talked about in a very serious way.
The fact that someone may make money from it (and in reality this is rarely the case for short films, they are not something you make to get rich on) is pretty much inevitable somewhere along the line of any serious discussion on the subject.

I think artists and film-makers should make what they like/think is appropriate.
We know people will always love a vicarious tragedy and if we can pretend that we are ‘understanding’ then we don’t have to feel grubby about it.
Bravo mr lambe.

If I'm going to make a film where I want to make people think... stir up emotion and create a conflict inside people... because I want them to feel the mix of emotions then it's almost certainly going to be on a subject that will stimulate those emotions..

Violence, tragedy, abuse, taboo, injustice, prejudice etc

You can discuss these things to be goady,, to seek attention / publicity, or to be thought provoking - possibly more than one of those motives.

I remember a documentary called Shoah (about the holocaust) which was considered highly controversial using footage obtained not long after the war etc). Today, it stands as one of the most harrowing and moving documentaries I've ever seen.

I do worry that the price of our freedom is that some upstart producer can make a controversial drama just to get his name on the map. That is the price we have to pay in order for another producer to make a masterpiece documentary on a terrible subject.

I tend to believe her

So do I, she has said a few times that she doesn't want to know the details. Maybe her feelings have changed.

This website is making money from us discussing it.

True!

However - it's a price worth paying.

I appreciate what you are saying but Shoah was a testimony of survivors (and perpetrators) - the victims voices were at the very forefront of it - and it was made in the 1980s.

I think as audienceor readers we should be wary of being sucked into things just coz the director or artist says so. Directors and artists etc are often chancing their arm. In fact, I find that interesting- the old ‘obedience to authority’ reflected in this...

It is pretty to pretend to understand through a wider gamut of viewpoints than pretend to understand through a narrow one.

I can shout 'hang 'em' every time something like this happens.
Or I can shout 'be careful how we treat our kids, or we can turn them into monsters'.
The former never fixed much. The latter might fix something.

I can shout 'hang 'em' every time something like this happens.

Obvs I would not!

Or I can shout 'be careful how we treat our kids, or we can turn them into monsters

Or you can treat injured parties with empathy and compassion- knowing that to do otherwise turns you into ....

Hmmmmm no. Hang them.

Yes, but Shoah was very controversial at the time and although made in the 80s relied on many interviews and footage from far earlier.
The point was that many said it went too far, it was too harrowing and many relatives still existed.

Perhaps it pandered to people like me - who do have a morbid curiosity, but at the same time it can still be informative and harrowing.

My own gut feeling is that a short film couldn't really do much justice to a complicated subject, but at the same time, I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I don't understand the "obedience to authority" reference.

But Shoah couldn’t be more different than this because it was the victims testimony!

Plus this is an individual case as opposed to a whole political movement in society. There is a difference.

It's not really obedience to authority, but they are implying we can be gullible enough to fall for 'oh it's a heartfelt drama setting out to help us understand' - just because some director says that's the case - when in reality it could be 'I need to make a name for myself, so I chose a controversial subject for my film'. He'll certainly not be the first to have gone down that route.

I can't speak for this guy making the film, but I can say that I agree with the freedom of authors and film makers to broach difficult subjects.

Vincent Lambe is not making money out of this, he put his own money into it. It's something about which he obviously felt quite strongly.

Plenty of other people have made documentaries about James Bulger, this may well be better than those.

I don't get the hate.

He may have put his own money into making it but of course he will benefit from it - it will get shown in the mainstream eventually and he will benefit from that name wise and advertising money wise I am sure. It’s not like he’s made it from an altruistic point of view.

Of course, the first thing we always have to think about is the aggressor, oh do they have childhood issues, oh they MUST have MH issues, even here, the first thing people go on about is 'youre not caring, you should think about how they feel' if a poster dares to mention theyve had shitty treatment from someone. In the case of Jamie, l would absolutely advocated the death penalty, that wasn't an unintentional death from misadventure, it was torture and horrific.

There are just two people on this thread who really know anything about the film. One has seen it, the other's husband has; they both say the same thing. Maybe we should stop speculating and prejudging and give our opinions when we're in a position to give an informed judgement, ie have seen it.

If you look at the films he's made in the past - this is not out of character for him. He broaches difficult subjects. It's probably fair to say that's his forte, and this isn't just his very first film deliberately seeking controversy. He's broached bullying, the Irish Civil War and The Troubles.

In the case of Jamie
Denise Bulger hated that name. It is James. The press invented 'Jamie' and she detests it.

torn in all this debate that's the biggest thing you took? Ok- can everyone please alter my above post in your head to read 'in the case of James'.

Torn is making some intelligent points on this thread. Much more interesting than the 'hang 'em' brigade, as hanging was abolished in 1964.