James Bulger

[Monty27]

Hang your head in shame Vincent Lambre.
You low life creep.
Anyone?

So has this VL effectively made money out of that little boy’s killing? Because if he has then I find that absolutely shameful!

I really don't know how I feel about this to be honest, though I understand the vilification based on not speaking to James's mum and dad, but surely newspapers, TV producers, publishers etc have all made money out of it, horrible a fact as that is?

I have empathy for James's parents, and for RT and JV's parents. Empathy means understanding how someone else feels. I have no clue how RT and JV feel. I wouldn't want to get inside their heads.

Yes, my mistake mikado1. I still wonder why he chose this particular crime though. He must know how emotive it is. He says he ‘hoped to offer people a deeper insight’ into it. That sounds a bit arrogant to me. What was it he think he understood about it all that others failed to get?

I think failing to at least notify the family was disgraceful though, whatever his reason for that. Denise Fergus has spoken before at how badly being kept in the dark about things related to her DS has affected her, one of the killers reoffending for example. Why would anyone think it was OK to hurt someone who has been through so much even more, for whatever reason?

He stands to make money, just like all the authors and journalists who have written about it - and Milly Dowler, Sara Payne, the Moors murders, the list goes on. I don't understand why there's outrage about that.

Not from me, he doesn’t.

not informing The Bulger Family is an utter disgrace. A cowardly act.

Given his attempts to avoid/ deflect the questions on this where asked on TV, I suspect he knows this too. He just doesn't care .

*The film is based entirely on transcripts from the police interviews. It hasn't bee nice produced for entertainment but as an attempt to understand how something so dreadful could have happened.

Clearly, although it shouldn't be necessary, there is a need to remind people that these two boys are human. This thread proves that. I completely understand why people demonise them, to do otherwise would be to let in the idea that human ten year old boys can do terrible things. But that doesn't mean it's justified.*

But you’re not ‘trying to understand’ are you? Nor is this film. It’s based on things which have been in the public domain for a long time and it offers nothing new and no particular insight.

The only thing this film does is impose a false narrative on the story because it makes people feel comfortable with it.

It’s exactly the same as people and newspapers who branded them evil and called for their heads. That dehumanisation made them feel comfortable because it made it seem something not of this world but a huge almost supernatural aberration.

This type of film and documentary is exactly the same from the other side of the coin. It makes people believe they’ve explained it all and wrapped it up in some nice little box covered with some faux intellectualism and prurient curiosity dressed up as concern.

The film maker is the ultimate hypocrite here. He’s says he’s trying to ‘humanise’ the killers at the same time as dehumanising James and Denise and glossing over the fact that there was a huge human cost from James’s murder beyond his killers. He didn’t even view Denise or James as human enough for Denise to receive a phone call or letter. How the hell can he complain that the killers were dehumanised when he does the same to James’ family.

But then James’ family are white and working class and have jobs, don’t commit crimes or claim benefits and live in the north, they haven’t always shut up and gone away when their liberal betters told them to and I bet there are even sneaking suspicions they voted leave in there.

I think most people these days realise that people like that are absolute fair game for a kicking from liberals and liberals evidently enjoy putting the boot into them very much.

Denise didn’t shut up, she didn’t go away, and she has repeatedly been proved correct on her warnings. She is a very, very inconvenient woman for the authorities and for pseudo-intellectual bleeding hearts.

@Augusta2012, have you seen the film?

Have you seen the film, @Augusta2012? Because nothing I've seen or read has even hinted at demonisation of Denise Fergus or her family.

I saw the interview with her this week. It was appalling to hear that only now is she discovering exactly what happened to her son. She was infantalised by the police and is understandably very angry about it. Despite that she was calm, dignified and articulate.

The world isn't black and white. Trying to understand the reason s behind something doesn't mean condoning or excusing it.

I didn’t say he’d demonised her. I said he had dehumanised her. And he has. He’s made a film about the murder of her son without even a phone call or a letter or any sort of acknowledgement that her son - a real person - is at the centre of this film. I can’t think of anything more dehumanising than a film which, by his own admittance, seeks to humanise James’ murderers, but hasn’t even attempted to hear the point of view of James’ surviving family or how the impact affected them.

This is all the filmmakers own words. He admits he tried to humanise the killers and he admits that he sought no input from James’ surviving family because they ‘wouldn’t have liked’ what he wanted to say. They’re an inconvenience to the narrative he wished to impose so they are ignored.

My husband is involved in a film festival and has seen this film a number of times. He has talked to me about it a lot as he found it an incredibly powerful and though provoking experience. Though it seeks to humanise that does not in anyway mean it is sympathetic to the perpetrators of this horrific murder. It is a very uncomfortable and difficult film to watch and it is supposed to be so. Not all films are entertainment. This is not a sit back and eat popcorn movie this is a difficult film created to make you think and feel hard and uncomfortable things, to look at a subject we all think we know so well and see it in a different way.

I had the opportunity to watch it but chose not to as, for personal reasons I'm just not in the mental place for this sort of hard watch. I hope to do so in the future when I am feeling better.

The is based solely on police interview transcripts. It's not about the impact on James' family. How hard is it for you to understand that?

Incidentally, this film seems to have offended some people here more than it has Denise Fergus.

Where was Denise Fergus interviewed this week?

Does anyone have a link to the film?

I had read the psychologists reports on JV and RT and the police interview transcripts, and would like to see if the film reflects them.

Though it seeks to humanise that does not in anyway mean it is sympathetic to the perpetrators of this horrific murder. It is a very uncomfortable and difficult film to watch and it is supposed to be so. Not all films are entertainment. This is not a sit back and eat popcorn movie this is a difficult film created to make you think and feel hard and uncomfortable things, to look at a subject we all think we know so well and see it in a different way.

This.

James’s murder was a despicable act at which I shared the same feelings of revulsion as everyone else. I have limitless sympathy for Mrs Fergus and Mr Bulger who have borne a life of hell with such incredible public dignity and (Mrs Fergus in particular) has spoken with such eloquence about the whole tragic mess. I don’t have any desire to see the film.

That doesn’t mean the film shouldn’t have been made. People are free to view it or not. Once we start censoring films on the basis of whether we agree with the subject matter or not then that starts to impact on freedom of speech and that’s a dangerous road to go down.

I also agree that we need to try and understand the killers and what made them carry out such a truly shocking act in order to try and prevent it happening again.

I saw the interview with her this week. It was appalling to hear that only now is she discovering exactly what happened to her son. She was infantalised by the police and is understandably very angry about it. Despite that she was calm, dignified and articulate.

Bluelady, not sure this is correct as Denise Fergus did not attend the 3 week trial because she didn't want to know the details of what happened to James (understandably so). She was heavily pregnant and the doctors told her the trial may cause her to miscarry.

Even to this day her husband checks any newpaper stories and edits any bits she doesn't know about with a black marker. They have both said this.

Also, Blake Morrison's book As If was not unsympathtic to the boys (in that he talked about their family lives), but we don't know that he obtained permission for the book.

This film doesn't seem to me different to that, although I admittedly have not seen the film.

I was taught by Blake Morrison, he’s a v nice bloke but I didn’t reckon this work.

I think if you had sooty and sweep or Noel Edmunds read out the transcripts, and people were told - this is not voyeuritic, this is not just to satisfy your morbid curiosity, ‘this is going to help you understand’ what happened- then people would lap it up. It’s quite weird.

My husband has said that one of the most powerful and difficult things about the film is that there is nobody in it you end up feeling sympathetic towards. We tend to expect someone to feel sympathetic towards in films so you seek it out, but in this film there is nobody.

It is precisely because it doesn't portray the victim or victim's family you are forced to focus on the two children and their families who did this and acknowledge the complexity of circumstances that lead to people carrying out such an act.

Is it still voyeurism after 25 years?

It's embedded in our psyche like a thorn, I think people want to understand how it could happen and would like neat answers, which is never going to happen. I did hear an excerpt from the original interview on youtube, and it's impossible to marry up those soft childish voices with the crime.

Ch5 did a 25 year anniversary documentary in November. Do we know if permission was sought then?

There was also the film Boy A that was released a few years ago.

I don't think people will ever stop retelling this story.

I wouldn't like to see it - I wouldn't want to give a penny to Vincent Lambe who will be profiting from this bullshit. Arsehole piece of shit.