AIBU to think that other than some people being upset or angry, there are no downsides for the UK if Brexit doesn't happen ?

[frumpety]

I can't think of any downsides to the UK not brexiting other than some of the population being upset for a bit. Can anyone else ?

The EU is not a them - for the moment - it is a we.

We get to vote, we get to veto, we have a place around the table at the Council of Minsters, we have members of the European Parliament.

The ECJ is a non elected body that polices the EU.

There are democratic checks and balances in place, it is not a dictatorship.

If we don’t go now, will it be any easier to leave the EU at any future point?

The obvious rational answer to this is "yes". You've seen what happens when you try to leave the EU without a plan. Next time (if there is a next time) presumably there would be a plan.

Brexit could be done in a relatively undamaging way, but it would require compromise and an acceptance of trade offs.

Because the EU may put in place future policies that we deem unethical.

That a member state could just veto? Ridiculous argument especially as outside the EU like it or not the UK will be a rule taker.

Thank you Mistigri, that is an answer that could convince many people.

I was responding to your post of 11.47

'Will of the people' my arse. This is one of the most conclusive demonstrations of how viciously stupid most pro-Brexit types are - even if you discount the lies and manipulation of voters and go solely by the result of the referendum, that still means that nearly half the people did not want to leave the EU.

No one who isn't a deluded racist or a crook can make any kind of case for leaving the EU as it is. What is happening to the UK at the moment is thoroughly scary.

if you assume the polls are right at 54/46 to stay that is still really close allowing for the standard 3% error margin and the fact that polls overestimated stay vote last time

Saying only 20% voted leave is disingenuous as firstly the turnout was about 72% and just over 17 million (52%) voted leave , so actually it was 37.4% of electorate, you can't count babies, children and all the population that can't vote very very few adults can't vote the queen members of the house of Lords, bishops prisoners etc
it doesn't matter which way you count more actively voted leave than actively voted stay, those that didn't vote either can't decide or don't care so they can't be counted either way
While I am just about pro-remain I think ignoring a vote that all politicians of which ever persuasion said they would follow would be very very damaging to democracy it would make the poor feel even more disenfranchised, the average brexit voter being older, poorer and less educated than remainers but still over 33% of graduates voted leave while a minority it is a sizeable minority of well educated people
it was about 50/50 with education to A level and 66% leave for education to 16 only

I don't think you can underestimate the damage to democracy if brexit doesn't happen

@TeacupDrama I was agreeing with you until you wrote this:

the average brexit voter being older, poorer and less educated than remainers but still over 33% of graduates voted leave while a minority it is a sizeable minority of well educated people
it was about 50/50 with education to A level and 66% leave for education to 16 only.
I didn't know our friends and I were old, poor and uneducated. We all voted leave.
How patronising is that. We are not moving away from we all leave voters didn't know what we were voting for and we are poor and tick.
All people that voted stay are young, richer and educated. That's ridiculous.
The country most be doing terrible with so many tick people 17.4 million of us.

Uneducated doesnt mean thick

We have universal education in the U.K.

We can't just cancel brexit.

The government needs to revoke article 50, close the departments for international trade and exiting the EU, then take all the budgets allocated to these, plus the money for no deal prep, plus a good wodge extra and open a new department for regional development and investment with sub ministers for the North of England, rural England and coastal England.

It's not good enough to waffle on about northern powerhouses but not do much in reality. And there needs to be a recognition that there isn't a north/south divide but lots of pockets and areas of deprivation. I say that as someone living in a poor area of Cornwall (so poor they wouldn't let the Olympic torch run through it).

Then they need to build social and affordable housing and address the issues of universal credit.

Yes it would cost money, but if it's not done then after brexit we will still have all the same problems. The government seems to have money to waste on fridges and extra border staff and replacing all the work that the EU currently does that we share costs for.

And the right wing press and the media needs to take a long hard look at itself and ask itself if they have played a part in undermining our social cohesion. I'm not talking about reporting on actual news, but all the benefits bashing programmes which made people at the bottom of the pile feel like shit and all the immigrant bashing news and all the shit blamed on the EU instead of our government because politicians and the print media have had a democratically dysfunctional relationship.

I'm a remainer and I think there is potential for riots either way.

Yes - I'm sure Tommy Robinson and the 3000 he managed to get to march through London will riot no matter what. They would seize any excuse - they are that type. I'm asking if all 17.4 million are planning to take to the streets.

We should not live in fear of what 3000 extremists spread around the country will do if we don't give them what they want - especially as they will simply find another reason to cause trouble. Let them riot - let them be arrested. (They will riot just as hard when then are food and medication shortages - but a lot more people will be joining them in that scenario)

But ordinary leavers? Are any of you planning on throwing a brick through a window and then facing the consequences? Or attacking police? or breaking into other people's homes? or setting fire to cars In the event of no brexit?

Talking about what other people will do is ... talking for other people. Telling us that 'people' (not us - but some others who voted the same way as us) will riot if you don't give us what we want is - ironically enough - project fear.

YANBU Embarrassing for a couple of years then back to normal.

You should think again, if Brexit doesn't happen that will be the end of democracy in this country. Anarchy will happen and you'll see bloodshed on our streets. Remainers are never going to stop throwing their toys out of their prams.

@Confusedbeetle completely agree. MN it's a hotbed for remainders.
I don't know why I bother with it. I get people are unhappy with the result.
I would have loved for Cameron to have success negotiating with the EU but it wasn't to be.
I think most people wanted reform and accountability from the EU.
The EU isn't accountable to nobody. They do what they want with the money and to this day they haven't presented accounts to member states.

The British majority are too lazy to riot but there are enough people willing to jump on any bandwagon for a bit of violence regardless of what’s its about.

Voting numbers would go down as people would feel even less likely to feel that their vote counts. A divided community between the voters and leavers which is highly damaging for the local areas. No doubt another rise in hate crimes for those not British, possibly even a rise in petty crime because Well what do we have to lose attitude nobody cares about me anyway.

That should say remainers and leavers.

@BlueJag and @Confusedbeetle , I've asked on another thread whether Leave voters would be prepared to accept the Withdrawal Agreement as a mechanism to leave rather than No Deal.
Which of these is your preferred method of Leave because they are the only two available.
It is a genuine question and you will have to cope yourself with any triggering caused by being asked it.

Remainers are never going to stop throwing their toys out of their prams

It's called living in a democracy with free speech. Do you think if remain had won Farage would have gone oh ok then and closed down UKIP? After the first vote in 75 people started campaigning against our membership. Like literally the day after and carried on for forty years.

If you have an issue with people campaigning for something they believe in and having issues with a referendum won by a very small majority where the winning side was found to have broken the law, then I suggest you aren't as keen on democracy as you make out.

@Rufusthebewilderedreindeer absolutely but leavers are both according to remainders.
In here they are calling us thick, old, uneducated etc.

I don’t understand the “cancelling Brexit will be the end of democracy” argument. Referendums have been extremely rare in British democracy and up until 2016, they all resulted in a vote to continue the status quo. It’s completely unprecedented for a decision of this magnitude to have been taken without Parliamentary approval.

Our form of democracy is representative. We vote once every few years for one individual to represent our area in Parliament and vest in them the power to decide what is in our country and community’s best interests. If we don’t like the decisions they make, we vote for someone else.

It’s the fact that this form of democracy has been completely undermined -not just by the referendum itself but also by the government’s response to it - that is causing the current constitutional crisis. Were we to revoke Article 50 on the entirely legitimate grounds that the decision to trigger it hadn’t been made by Parliament as it should have been, then that would be a reassertion of our democracy, not an undermining of it.

If individuals don’t like how their MP voted in deciding whether to revoke Article 50 or not, they have the opportunity to vote for someone else at the next GE. You couldn’t argue that people have been disenfranchised by this without saying that the entire basis of our Parliamentary system has been undemocratic for the last 180 years.

Incidentally, if Brexit was taken off the table before March, you can bet your life that the political parties would immediately pivot away from it and the next GE would be fought on very different issues.

@bellinisurge I wouldn't accept the chequers deal. It's the worse of both worlds.
I would prefer if push come to shove a Canada plus that can be workable.
I know WTO isn't perfect but it may be our only choice.
Many companies already use WTO without any problems.

Many companies already use WTO without any problems.

What on earth does this mean?

Companies don't "use" WTO.

BlueJag you say "The EU isn't accountable to nobody"

The EU is a democratic institution. It is accountable to the electorate of Europe via the European Parliament. The Council of Minsters is accountable to the individual electorate of each country.

I agree there are elements that need reform, there is an over reliance of bureaucracy that is common in some European countries and the counting system needs closer scrutiny.

However, it is both democratic and accountable.

The Commission is the equivalent of the civil service and as such is not elected nor should it be. The ECJ is also unelected but I feel an unelected judiciary is beneficial, some countries like to USA disagree.

If the options are crash out or leave but keep a foot in the door so not really leave. I’d say crash out, there is no point in leaving to stay getting no say but being expected to follow.