AIBU to think that other than some people being upset or angry, there are no downsides for the UK if Brexit doesn't happen ?

[frumpety]

I can't think of any downsides to the UK not brexiting other than some of the population being upset for a bit. Can anyone else ?

I’ll take evens that someone will say “it’s not democratic” and “well Y2K wasn’t bad” on this thread.

That's not really a downside though is it helmet? They've pissed me and half the country off immensely.

Like most posters, I don’t post on the Brexit threads because they are generally grim places of shrill unpleasantness and hysteria.

However, without being specific to Brexit, ‘some people being upset’ could also apply to pretty much every political upheaval and difficult period in the history of mankind. To tinkly-laugh it would be foolish.

I think I started a thread nearly a year ago saying the same thing. Most people don't care enough or they think there will be no obvious changes when we leave, so they're in for a nasty shock. A lot of people's views, IMO, would be formed by how the media respond. If the Mail/Express/Telegraph whipped people up, there could be some trouble. If they just had a quiet grumble, then anyone who was bothered would probably do the same.

The fact is, whether it is admitted or not, all the research shows that immigration was the biggest factor in voting leave and the referendum has meant a big drop in EU migration as Europeans don't want to move somewhere where they clearly aren't welcome. So many leave voters have achieved their main objective already.

Hilarious conversation on LBC last night with frothing Ukippers accusing Sadiq Khan of treasonous fireworking, blah, blah, blah. These are the people who wish to govern our future? And we're expected to take them seriously?

I would be very happy if Brexit didn’t happen. Though long term Brexiters would be furious, I think that quite a few people who voted Leave wouldn’t be upset as they understand that everyone who voted was doing so without sufficient reliable information to help them properly make that choice.
However there are serious underlying problems in the country, many of which were factors in people’s responses to the referendum question. The effects of austerity, especially on certain communities, were important. We are more and more becoming an unequal society and austerity exacerbates this. Health, education and transport systems and infrastructure are becoming increasingly patchy and dysfunctional, with government policy, driven by ideology and short termism, only making problems worse. The driver of this is our outdated, damaging and disenfranchising first past the post electoral system, which polarises politics and prevents collaborative long term planning in the interests of all. We have governments that are in power with the approval of less than 40% of the electorate, and who when in a minority in Parliament can be held to ransom by much smaller parties, or extremes in their own party. It’s no way to run a country. Without reform of the system the same problems will persist. Proportional representation would not cure all ills, but it would be a step on the way to consensual politics rather than the nonsensical, confrontational pantomime antics we see all too frequently in the House of Commons.

Frumpty polls mean nothing. They got the actual referendum prediction wrong.

As people have said, we'd just have the BNP voted in during the next election.

We're fucked either way.

The only way things could be fixed would be a major incident of some kind delaying and delaying it all, then a vote for stability.

I'm a remainer but I think it would result in a lot of people becoming disenfranchised and possibly result in greater swings towards extreme right wing parties.
I see the argument but fear is not a good reason. That would truly be appeasement. The point is we shouldn't be bullied into brexit by extremes. Populism is a global threat whether or not we leave the eu. My guess is it will in fact be harder to fight them off in a bad brexit scenario.

Austerity is the monstrous offspring of the Tories. Brexit and the low tax haven that they want to create will make it look cute by comparison.

Happy I will give you some polls got it wrong, so what do you see as the downsides of the UK not leaving ?

Persona I am not tinkly laughing. At present I cannot see any downsides other than some people being upset, if we don't leave.

It's all shit either way, isn't it?

We don't leave and people get frothy about the government "ignoring the will of the people" in a nonbinding, advisory referendum , the far right gain political currency by playing on it, we're an international joke, the economy takes a hit from all the dithering, and it's all doom for however long afterwards.

We do leave and when it's not the paradise of sovereignty and blue passports that was promised and is, in fact, a shitty clusterfuck of epic proportions then those same people will get frothy that the government ballsed it up on purpose as part of a conspiracy with the EU to make us rejoin. Far right get currency from it, we're an international joke, economy is knacked from all the dithering, etc.

I think it will be a lot worse than some people being 'upset'.

There will be a massive loss of faith in the vote and, as a result, a surge towards the far, far, far right. I actually think they are hoping Brexit won't happen, as this will give them a boost of unimaginable proportions that could never have been achieved in any other scenario.

Sadly, I think it has to go ahead turning us all into a nation of white, English speaking, inward looking people who eat jellied eels and turn out for royal weddings but the alternative is to ignore the lessons of history and we do that at our peril.

I would rather the loss of face (already happened) and some short term disgruntlement, even if there are riots to begin with, than the long term economic and social disaster that Brexit will bring.

The 'deal' is a shit show, puts us in a far worse position than now. No deal is even worse. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to educate themselves. Brexit will be most damaging to those who can least afford it.

I think there are downsides to all outcomes tbh, because so many of the negatives are already baked in at this point.

In fact one of the major downsides is that if Brexit falls through, all of the negative outcomes will be blamed on the EU and a resolution to the European question will be further away, not nearer.

There is no longer any outcome that leaves the UK economy unharmed and its political institutions undamaged.

It blows my mind to think how David Cameron got away with this.

Most of the brexiteers I know have absolutely no idea of the damage they have done and are doing. They think it’s all fine and wonderful. They think any concerns are nonsense- if they do think there are difficulties ahead they think that’s great too- like in ww2.
these are not intellectual people.

What the brexiteer leaders did was tap into disaffection - for people to climb down from the Eu being the cause of that will be very very hard- harder still if we don’t brexit.

There will be social unrest either way that was the point of Brexit for some. Social unrest and discord forces people into the arms of the extremes.

No Brexit will be less harmful than Brexit but there is no peaceful option anymore. We look foolish on the world stage whatever happens and society will be fractured for decades.

People's understanding of democracy and the democratic process is limited already and will be undermined further.

The Brexit affair is a fiasco and has caused untold damage already.

I think that sums it up nicely moose. Unfortunately.

What Mousse said.

I don't believe the divisions are going away for at least a generation, whatever the outcome.

Brexit cancelled? Anger and unrest and blaming Traitorous Remoaners/the EU.
No-Deal Brexit resulting in shortages and disruption? Anger and unrest and blaming Traitorous Remoaners/the EU for causing it.
WA Can-Kicking Brexit resulting in delayed shortages and disruption, plus delayed unicorns? Anger and unrest and blaming Traitorous Remoaners/the EU for causing it, and delaying the unicorns.
Soft or BINO Brexit resulting in being a rule-taker plus continued FOM plus long-term decline? Anger and unrest and blaming Traitorous Remoaners/the EU for causing it.
Hard Brexit resulting in being a rule-taker plus short-and-long-term decline? Anger and unrest and blaming Traitorous Remoaners/the EU for causing it.
...

Unicorn-Laden Sunlit-Uplands Globe-Bestriding Super-Trade-Dealing International-Worship-By-Awestruck-Foreigners Brexit with Gold-Plated NHS? Anger and unrest and blaming Traitorous Remoaners/the EU for delaying the unicorns which should have arrived instantly on 24 June 2016.

Is Society really fractured though Mousse ?

Apart from the EU bureaucrats rubbing their hands as we beg to be let back in with our tail between our legs, knowing that we'll face DECADES of punishment for daring to vote to leave their dictatorship.. no, no downsides at all.

Kemer
Sorry but 'decades of punishment' is propaganda bullshit. Revoking now before 29th march means NOTHING changes for us. Even if all other EU members are mightily pissed off there is nothing they can do to punish the UK. In fact I'd argue that if you really want to punish THEM, revoking would be the best way!

If we revoke though we don't have to beg at all, we just stay in on the same terms as before. I appreciate you weren't keen on those terms for whatever reason. Punishment ? says who exactly ?

I think there'd be riots if it was called off I used to think this until someone pointed out the average age of the average leaver.

The anti-democracy argument is brought out as usual. No-one says (out loud anyway) that about the conservatives having general elections in 2015 and 2017 - 2 years apart. But having a second referendum - after much more precise information has been brought to light - is considered to be undemocratic. (Anyway, most leavers who go on about sovereignty don't seem to have noticed that TM does her best to override/ignore parliament when it suits her, which is most of the time. THAT is the opposite of democracy.)

Yes, the problems that led to brexit will remain - alienation from politics and austerity. But brexit won't solve them. It would make them 10 times worse, as the most hardened brexiteers know (or don't care as these people will be the backs on which their low-tax London Singapore will be built on).

Apart from the EU bureaucrats rubbing their hands as we beg to be let back in with our tail between our legs, knowing that we'll face DECADES of punishment for daring to vote to leave their dictatorship.. no, no downsides at all.

I know it is not the done thing for saying that leavers have no idea but.....

For (attempted) dictatorship look at Theresa May. Also how can 27 equal members be a dictatorship?!