AIBU to think that other than some people being upset or angry, there are no downsides for the UK if Brexit doesn't happen ?

[frumpety]

I can't think of any downsides to the UK not brexiting other than some of the population being upset for a bit. Can anyone else ?

mouusse when people voted they had no concept of the legality. Surely that’s even less democratic, here, vote on this, and when we get the wrong result it won’t matter because actually you can’t really vote on that anyway.

I think regardless of your opinion on what we should or shouldn’t do now, you can see how that is damaging to the relationship between public and government.

As a voter am I expected to check that my government is complying with the law when they ask me to vote? Is that my responsibility?

People believed it was a legal process.

The referendum would have been nullified if it was binding.

If a GE was fought in that way it would have been re run.

We can not force through a decision of this magnitude because people 'perceive' it to be the correct decision.

That is effectively opening the door to electoral fraud. We have a crises in our electoral system due to data being used illegally and Russia trying to influence foreign electorates.

If we bow to this because people 'think' we should when we have logic, evidence and reason on one side and perception on the other, then we really need to just give up and go home.

I have posted many times that Brexit is a fiasco of mammoth proportions. It will negatively impact on the country politically, economically and socially whatever happens.

It is a disaster.

However, we have to hold to some lines we can not stoop to the lowest common denominator.

The referendum was advisory. The referendum would have been nullified. Parliament is still sovereign. These are fundamental tenets of British democracy and society we can't let them go because some people 'don't get it'.

rufus I think it’s niave to think public opinion doesn’t have a place in politics.

I’m not saying don’t make decisions because of the public, but you can’t pretend that asking their opinion and then doing the opposite doesn’t have an effect.

Id have been happier not to have been asked.

mousse I’m not saying we should force anything through just because people think we should, but do you genuinely believe not brexitting now would have no impact on people’s views of the democratic standing of the country?

That’s the only point I’m making.

I think the damage between the government and the people would be extreme, I don’t think that doesn’t mean my government shouldn’t make hard decisions. They absolutely should make the hard decisions. If on balance at this point not brexxiting is fundamentally better for our country than brexitting and my government can lawfully overrule the vote of the people they govern then they should be brave enough to do that, and to ride the storm that follows.

Brexit or no Brexit the damage is done.

We can't get out of this unscathed. The issue is not if we damage the country but how much damage is done. The issue isn't are we going to cause political and social unrest, the issue is to who and how much.

We are trying to work our way to the lesser of several evil choices.

Which option is the least worst?

WA is the least worst. We leave. We don't screw up GFA. Everyone whines but no one dies.

Apart form the 'This Brexit isn't what we voted for' myth grows. When it's all crap we will be told "we were let down by politicians".

This mess isn't the fault of Brexit, blame the EU, blame TM, blame anyone but the people who voted for it.

Chaos, confusion and division.

You might be right though - least worst.

WA is the least worst. We leave. We don't screw up GFA. Everyone whines but no one dies
Tell that to Corbyn because he is trying to get a harder Brexit.

Corbyn is a twat.

Most people who wanted brexit wanted it before we where off to vote that’s why the Tory’s offeredthe vote. Those that desperately wanted it before it was offered presumably want a brexit means brexit deal witch is no special connections just treat them as anywhere else we may buy or sell from or too.

Personally when I voted I took it as an out vote would be like that I mentioned above and an in vote was realistically for an ever closer union. Neither was for stay as we are now.

Interesting you took Remain to mean "agree to ever closer union". @chillpizza I certainly didn't. I took for "status quo". Any changes to terms of our Remain were a discussion for another day.
I wonder how many other Leavers were duped into thinking it meant Agreement to Ever Closer Union.

Bellin you view so many people as "twats" and ignorant - from the ignorant electorate to the UK's politicians.

Maybe you should stand for politics yourself, seeing as you view your self and your views as far superior to so many others?

Nope I reserve the term twat for Corbyn and his cronies. Or ERG types.
I only think people who want No Deal are ignorant.
But hey, they all prove me right with every word they utter.

Ive not said how I voted funny to presume I’m a leaver and that I would of been duped just because I don’t shout I’m a remainer who thinks leavers where lied too and it should be stopped.

Of course a vote to stay wasn’t for the status quo as the Eu is ever evolving and changing and as such will eventually mean an ever closer union or a failing one even if closer was for the other members rather than the uk it would still be a change of the way it is.

Yes the EU is evolving.

I think with the Euro being less than a blinding success and some of the newer countries less enthusiastic, also economic problems in Greece, Italy etc the rush towards closer union has stopped.

I think closer union is in hiatus. Now is the time to strengthen the case for subsidiarity. Unfortunately, we aren't at the table doing that we are dicking about with Brexit.

Spot on Mousse.

If the referendum was only advisory why are we leaving?
Please stop repeating this nonsense.

Because parliament followed the advice given by the referendum.

Parliament was not legally required to do so.

If Parliament chooses to change its mind and passes an Act requesting the withdrawal of Art 50 it can because parliament is sovereign.

It really isn't hard to follow. I'm no so much "repeating nonsense" as explaining how the British constitution works. And doing it again and again, and again, and again and again...

@TonTonMacoute absolutely. I look at the poor Greeks they have 50% unemployment among the younger generation and not much better all round.
The EU hasn't helped this people out of the awful hole they are in.
Many other countries aren't doing well either like Spain.

Because the EU doesn't interfere in internal issues.

Do you want the EU to interfere or not? Some leavers say the EU does too much and you seem to be complaining that the EU hasn't interfered enough.

Jog on...

If the referendum was only advisory why are we leaving?

It's a political decision. The legislation that enabled the referendum to take place made it quite clear that it was advisory.

The problems the Greeks and Spaniards and Italy has are due to the Euro not the EU although I would agree that the EU has dealt very badly with this BUT the U.K. had already agreed an opt out on bailing out these nations and also we are not in the Eurozone .

I know Greece had terrible financial problems before joining the Eurozone. They joined under false pretences thinking that being in the EU would help them dig themselves out of the hole.
Unfortunately things didn't turn out that way and they are suffering.
My problem is that as long as we are in the EU we have to pay for the many poor cousins.
Ideally I would have preferred to stay in the EU if reforms had been posible. Problem is the EU doesn't change for anybody.