AIBU to think that other than some people being upset or angry, there are no downsides for the UK if Brexit doesn't happen ?

[frumpety]

I can't think of any downsides to the UK not brexiting other than some of the population being upset for a bit. Can anyone else ?

I thought our democracy was optional ? There is no law stating you must vote is there ?

@Moussemoose
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Democracy is a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people." In the dictionary definition, democracy "is government by the people in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

We 17.4 million people voted to leave. Not a fifth not a few.

Come on blue jag, when you vote you expect or hope for something- what was it you were hoping to see?

What are some of the benefits of Brexit? It can’t be that hard a question for you, can it?

Both Ireland and Denmark had a second referendum. They voted to Leave the first time and when they were given a second chance they changed their minds. Nothing undemocratic about that. No riots.

Even Remainers didn't have a clue how difficult it would be to leave and the harm it would do to the economy. Watch how the value of the £ dives every time it looks as if we'll crash out with no deal. Even May's deal leaves us worse off.

Brexit will hit London hard. Banks are already re-locating to Frankfurt etc. Kudos to Sadiq. Whatever happens, we need to be on good terms with our neighbours. Over a million Londoners come from European countries, many are married to Brits and have been here for years. We need them to feel welcome here. Anything that counteracts the hostile language used about the EU and its citizens by the right-wing press and far right (and some far Left) is a good thing.

Mousse... When you talk about crisis which ones? The ones that may happen in the UK or may not, or may happen for a short time..

Our the plural crises all across Europe? The staggering mass un employment, once prosperous countries tied and gagged to eu rule. Even macron making fiscal promises to his rioting citizens had the eu breathing down his neck saying.. Oi! You can't actually for fill those tax cuts!

Have you noticed mass far right rallies in Germany, hard right in Austria, despair in Italy, despair in Greece, constant shootings in Europe, guns flourishing from open borders, brought in from Eastern bloc countries... On UK streets now as well.

I am therefore flummoxed by your comments... Which chaos, which crisis s are you referring to? The very real ones happening in the eu or the ones that might happen here?

BlueJag the debate about Brexit should absolutely not stop if we stay. A decision to remain should not stop the debate. Why do leavers keep saying if the result had been the other way the debate would have stopped. No it wouldn't and nor should it.

Also, I know I keep saying this, but a simple majority is NOT democracy. In many systems more than 60% of votes with the population or the legislature is required.

You quote Abraham Lincoln - which is an interesting quote but relates to the US system and not the U.K. Democracy is not one thing that is always the same. There are many different systems of democracy all of which have pros and cons.

Unfortunately, democracy is not simple and it is not binary. Something many people are only just finding out.

Oh heaven forbid London finally takes one for the team

I'm neither for nor against Brexit, but I think it would be more than a few people being upset.
I don't think the demonstrations would be peaceful and civil unrest would be inevitable.
All the racists who voted would be abusive/ violent in the streets.
Could even result in a civil war.

helmet

I honestly feel for both leavers who can't see benefits of remaining in the eu and remainers who can't see the benefits of leaving... Don't waste time on forums like this, go and do sometimes reading!

So much information from all places has been flooding the Airways, papers etc on this.

How did anyone escape it. Unless your just entrenched in your view and your deliberately choosing not to listen.

I honestly feel knowing more about both sides is a positive thing and will help anyone understand more about why leave won. And ease the pain of leave happening.

Money made in London drives the economy. Taxes raised on it keep the public services going all over the UK.

Zevitevitchofcwsmas like I said crises - plural.

As you say there are significant issues within Europe which is exactly why we she stay and fight. Historically when the U.K. attempts to turn its back o Europe things don't go well and we end up getting drawn in. We need to stay and fight for liberal democratic values within Europe now.

Brexiters are fond of using 1939 as a rallying cry and I think it is a good one. When Europe is in crisis we need to turn towards it, support it and offer the help it may need. Because if does go wrong we will be drawn in anyway. History demonstrates the absolute truth of this.

Crises in the U.K. we already have a social crisis. Family and friends arguing, deep divisions with some sectors of society profoundly misunderstanding the needs of others.

Brexit will be disastrous for the economy, impoverished, neglected parts of the U.K. will be further ignored. Poverty will increase, disillusionment will mean people will turn to extremes.

Disillusionment with myth of democracy will mean people will turn to extreme parties. "What is the point of voting if we don't get our way". You can hear it already on this thread. The nuance and complexity of democracy will be lost in the tyranny of the majority.

Ok so asking brexiteers the advantages of Brexit on a political discussion thread is a waste of time.
Okayyyy.

Good God, here we are good old MN Remainers. Guarantee a balanced argument here I don't think. I have never experienced such a one-sided place except for specific sites. What is patently clear is that most of the posters do not understand why any thinking person wanted Brexit. Please stop using the old chestnut of Racist ignorance and lack of education. I have listened to that simplistic claptrap for two years. Yes, it may be true for a few but don't tar everyone. I know people (don't we all) who chose to remain for the most ignorant and naive of reasons. Luckily most educated Brexiteers do not spend time insulting those who thought differently. What is being proposed is no Brexit so keep your knickers on

@BlueJag "If stay had won that would have been the end of the conversation."
Of course it wouldn't. Ridiculous observation.

@Confusedbeetle - what is being proposed is No Deal . Which should make everyone shit their pants.

I keep reading about potential riots and unrest if we cancel brexit. Can I ask the leavers on this thread (if it's not too impertinent) are any of them personally planning to go out and riot if brexit is cancelled? I don't want to hear people's estimations of what other people might do - I want to hear what you personally will do. If you are a leaver are you planning to riot in the event of a cancelled brexit? And are you then planning on either never voting again or attempting to vote in the BNP?
Leavers are not a hive mind of 17.4 EDL thugs. The vast majority of them are ordinary people. So - to the ordinary leavers of this thread - who proudly consider themselves part of the majority when it comes to the European question - will you be rioting on 30th March if article 50 is revoked?

Frankly I couldn’t give a shiny shite about London. Maybe I watch to many homesteading shows but I’d rather live isolated growing my food, mending clothes and crash out than yer again London be the only deciding factor in life because only London and it’s resisdents matter like always

The trouble is confused leavers pop onto these threads and tell us they are not uneducated or xenophobic. They tell us they had lots of excellent well researched reasons for voting for Brexit. All these leavers know lots of well educated Brexit supporters who made intellectual decisions.

Ok say the remainers give us 3 fact checked reasons.

Leaver - how dare you ask me that I'm off.

Time and time and time again. Please defend Brexit. Please explain why I am wrong. Please give 3 good reasons for the very serious risks we are taking with our society.

If we don’t go now, will it be any easier to leave the EU at any future point?

It seems that the longer we are in it, the more difficult it is to untangle laws and policies from the EU, so however difficult it is to go now, it is preferable to going later.

Can I ask the leavers on this thread (if it's not too impertinent) are any of them personally planning to go out and riot if brexit is cancelled

I think that would come under the range of impertinent. Brexiteers find asking ‘what are the advantages of Brexit?’ On a political discussion thread deeply disturbing.

AlmondCandle Give me a good reason why we should EVER want to leave?

Luckily most educated Brexiteers do not spend time insulting those who thought differently.
Insults against people with a different position unfortunately seem to have become quite customary (traitors, enemies of the people, vicious criticism of Sadiq Kahn for his token of appreciation of EU Londoners, queue jumpers etc.) It's constant!

Icantreach I'm a remainer and I think there is potential for riots either way.

We have a long hot summer, there are always more riots in hot weather.

The left and the right will use Brexit as a recruiting tool.

In poor areas people have nothing to lose, people feel disenfranchised. "We voted and they ignored us". Long term simmering anger and resentment builds up.

Focused racists attract support, the anti racist alliance opposes them. This tips over into violence.

I can see this happening, easily.

Because the EU may put in place future policies that we deem unethical.

Is Society really fractured though

Urgh! I hear that a lot. Mainly by people who don't live rurally, in London, have 2 incomes or a high main earner and who have not lived out in rural NotLondon for any period of time.

Out here there are many ordinary people, young old, well off, low paid workers, not Tommy Robinsons, not far right, not stupid, neither fearful nor ignorant. Many are fully enfranchised, politically minded, erudite even! And they have never felt so inconsequential.

We hear and see many new laws mooted and when we discuss them we realise, they're not relevant here. Take, for example, many of the new rental laws due in this year. Many of those are a response to the London rental market. Whilst other large urban areas may have similar issues out here we just don't. No endemic rip off landlords, tenants who wreck, sub let or flit owing squillions. But we are all going to have to deal with the fall out of the changes. And all could be dealt with on a local level, councils already have the power to do so. They just choose not to. So now landlords (and yes, I know the MN stance on them, that's another example, I think) and tenants will bear the brunt of that.

Add to that the knife laws, gun laws and many other laws that make perfect sense if you don't earn a living in a farming community. It takes a while to work out the reality of the apparent edicts, the headline version of the law.

All sorts of other issues too. They simply don't have much to do with lives out here. Culturally there is little in common. Socially there are very different mores. And yes, we do have a lot of EU and non EU residents. They've been here for decades. Nobody cares. They are neighbours, employers, relatives, friends, etc etc.

The divide is deepening, widening. Look at any Brexit map, you will see where those divides are felt most. But don't pretend there is no divide.