Collecting DS from XDH in middle of night

[clpsmum]

Not sure if I've been unreasonable or not.

8yoDS went for an unplanned sleepover at his dads tonight. I get a phone call from him at 12:40 saying he wants to come home. I tell him to go cuddle his dad and I'll get him in the morning.

1:30 another phone call DS obviously anxious or scared, crying saying his dad is asleep and he is scared and wants to come home. I try to reassure him and tell him I'll get him first thing in the morning but this makes him more upset. Try to call XDH but he doesn't answer. DS calls back I tell him to try and wake his dad which he eventually does. Instead of reassuring him and cuddling him he starts telling him off. Anyway to cut a long story short I went to collect him. XDH absolutely furious with me and with DS. Have i been unreasonable? Should I have just left him to sleepover and collected him tomorrow? DS usually has sleepovers at his dads with his brothers not on his own so not sure if this is what spooked him

A person who doesn't wake up despite attempts and doesn't respond to the phone.

Well, my phone wouldn't wake me at night because it's on silent.

Some people wake up when they hear the postman or the cat scratching at the door, others can sleep through anything. I don't think the dad being a deep sleeper makes him a bad parent, does it?

Besides we only have OP's version of events. How loud was the son being to wake his dad, for example? Was he really distressed or did he want to go home and knew his mum would come and collect him if he cried?

I always knew I'd get less sympathy off my dad as a child so if I wanted a day off or to stay up late I would always go to my mum! Doesn't mean my dad was a bad parent or incapable of keeping me safe - he just knew when I was playing up and was far less likely to indulge it!

Personally I don't think you were unreasonable. You didn't immediately jump in the car at the first call, you reassured him & told him to wake his dad. Which is what children do when they are scared, no? Sorry but if your kid comes into you in the night in tears because they are frightened & you tell them off you're a dick imo. Being scared for whatever reason is not a kid pissing about, & many adults wake up in the night, hear something & have a momentary panic. Difference is we can rationalise it as adults.

I think therein lies the problem, that he couldn't simply.run to his dad and get into bed with him.

Mine would always climb in quietly on my side of the bed, thankfully large, as the nasty aggressive fucker on the other side of the bed would be a nasty aggressive fucker if he was awoken in the night, before chance for any reasons. Also all DC agree, when very young they didn't want to be alone with him and didnt feel any comfort or reassurance from him.

Thankfully his contribution was brief (and severely limited!)!

How old are the brothers that usually go with DS?

Did you leave them at home when you fetched DS, or take them with you? How far apart do you and your ex live?

I’m probably more in the camp of fetching DS not being a good idea, based on limited information. In no small part because of the possible impact on the other DCs.

XH is a heavy sleeper (and could sleep through everything less than DS shaking him) and has on occasion been a total arse to me, but I can’t imagine a scenario where I would need to fetch DS in the night. A firm “it’s all fine, i’ll talk to you as you fall asleep” would do it.

You seem to be saying, insisting, over and again Adeline that all mothers do not know when DC are playing up and always indulge and encourage DC to play one parent off against another.

So, in the OP you think that crying DC is in fact just being deceitful and play games of setting parents, but mothers just can't see it?

@swingofthings

Or his phone was silent and the child only tried once, quietly, to wake him.

After the enormous thread on here recently telling everyone to leave phones out of the bedroom at night, why is it now an indicator the adult was unwell if they didn’t answer it in the night! ?

And as I said we don’t know how hard the child tried to wake the father. A little shoulder shake and a whisper wouldn’t rouse my husband. He’s a much better parent than me most of the time!

My Dd used to do this. I was too far away to collect her. Her Dad would have taken the shouty approach too.

I used to give her strategies like make up a story in your head, Watch something on the tablet or listen to a story book. This often worked.

She is 10 and won't sleep over with him on her own. Only if her half sisters stay too. Which is only in school hols.

It is quite interesting reading this as I feel I am the softer parent and he is the old skool one. Sorry not much help op other than I know how it feels.

No way would I go pick up an 8 year old in the middle of the night unless it was an emergency.

My youngest son was extremely anxious as a child. Selectively mutism, lots of weird phobia's, seperation anxiety from his twin brother and his anxiety was always worse at night and still does get anxious at night. Dh slept with him most nights until he was 4 and his brother shared a bed with him until they were 6. There were so many anxiety attacks when we moved them into their own rooms at 12 but we stuck to it. We've always told him to go to sleep, if there is an issue we will talk about it in the morning. Funnily enough the anxiety is almost always gone come morning. Rushing out to get him and soothe him would do nothing but reinforce that there is something to be anxious about when there isn't.

They eventually have to recognise their own triggers and self sooth, you aren't doing him any favors by soothing him yourself.

I find it interesting tidyup that your DD would not stay there without half siblings either, and had the same issues sleeping there, and he was also a shouty one.

You did in fact arm with strategies, and there are plenty, many work,but there's a line there to stop forcing it because f wants it and will get shout and aggressive if doesn't get it.

“you wouldn’t want ex showing up at 3am because your child rang them upset!”

Of course I would!

If my DS could not wake me for some bizarre reason (I’ve... slipped into a coma?) then yes - I’d want him to call someone.

I’d not be “extremely angry” when they arrived (wtf!) but so grateful. A bit embarrassed about the unscheduled coma.

It’s not about my feelings, it’s about my son’s needs.

We also don’t know exactly what the OP heard/was told(?) when ex did wake up. If he’d said to her ‘It’s ok, I’m awake now & DS is going to come in to my bed for a cuddle - aren’t you son?’ Then I doubt she’d have jumped into her car at that time of night even if DS was still crying at that point. So it implies that either what she heard or experience of ex made her think that he wouldn’t comfort DS. How much is bias because he’s her ex is what we don’t know.

One of my DC never phoned in the night and was often awake scared all night, to the point that school noticed a pattern of behaviour from sleep deprivation.

We would always talk about it, so I was aware, and we would do stuff at home to support any nights away.

It didn't help them at all to be ignored, it never got better but got ingrained anxiety as a result.

He of course was ignorantly blissful 'd' F. I guess he was being knowing that it was DC being deceitful and playing parents off against each other!

Shelby OP said on waking f told off 8 yo.

I hate the way some people leap to assume that a child of that age who is distressed at night is a manipulative little shit who just wants to fuck with his/her parents

I don’t think anyone on this thread has said that - at most that the child was playing off one parent against the other

Personally I would have refused - 8 is old enough to understand that they need to stay at their dads. If my 8 year old came into my room claiming to be scared I would send them back to bed - they aren't babies by then and once awake from whatever nightmare they were having they need to settle back down. Yes xdh was grumpy but it was the middle of the night! You need to nip it in the bud or you will have this again. He wasn't alone, his dad was there.

ChristmasSprite

How anyone can read that a child is obviously anxious or scared, crying.. scared... more upset.. in the wee hours and think “manipulative child!!”

... is beyond me.

I would be furious if my ex did this to me. Also, why has an 8 year old got a phone in their bedroom? No one knows what happened apart from the child's version. OP says child called her at 12.40, then again at 1.30. She tried herself to call ex. Then phoned child back. Her first post was at 2.15 presumeably she posted after getting up, getting other children up and dressed, driving to exs house, having a row, taking child, driving home, settling him back in bed. Does ex live next door??.
I have no doubt that this child wasn't purposely being manipulative, but as a result of 'mummy coming to the rescue from nasty daddy' he has learned that mummy will give in to him when daddy won't.
If my 8 year old children woke me up in the night, they would be taken straight back to their rooms and to,d to go back to sleep. Yes, having a bad dream as a child isn't pleasant, but having years of broken sleep is also not pleasant!
How does the OP know whether the ex had tried numerous times to settle the child back in bed? How does she know whether the child had been in trouble earlier with his dad for something he shouldn't have done and decided mummy will be nice to me so I'll get her over?
OP, I'm afraid you've made a poor choice in thinking you're the only parent with rights over this child. I've seen far too many children, usually boys, whose mothers have over indulged them and then those same mothers are crying out for help with their now out of control teen boys who think they are in charge of their mothers.

A bit of a side issue - but why does an 8yr old have unsupervised access to a phone in the middle of the night?

Ha! Aridane

Yes, that's pretty much what's being said, no matter what words you actually use the sentiment is the same yes.

Or his phone was silent and the child only tried once, quietly, to wake him
Indeed, it sounds like this was the case, but in doubt, I'd rather know for sure. In OP's situation, I wouldn't have been able to get back to peaceful sleep anyway.

The key part of OPs'post is that she didn't jump in her car after the first call, nor did her DS call back 5 mns later but much later. To me, that's enough fact to assume that she is not one of those mums who moddly cuddle her child or use any opportunity to undermine her ex but one who did end up concerned for the safety of her DS and possibly ex.

Sometimes very young DC do have to have access to phones at night, especially if nights away might be an issue, that's more of an issue tbh.

Thanks Qwerty

I think under normal circumstances nightmares can be dealt with fairly quickly and back to sleep, without any need for brusqueness. To immediately respond with her back to bed is just fucking horrible, and there's a nuanced balance to be struck.

When DC are tiny and all just want to jump into bed with you just because, that's very different. No-one gets proper sleep and its doesn't help their self soothing, but thats a far cry from a distressed child away from home who.clearly couldn't soothe himself and definitely didn't want to remain there alone.

Personally I think you did the right thing - first time he called you say ‘I’ll pick you up in the morning’ second time you say ‘wake daddy’

Neither work- Sod that - you tried- go get him!

It would have been wrong to go immediately as he needs to try to have a relationship with his dad and 8 year olds can be flighty.

But you’re not obligated to leave your child miserable in the middle of the night if your Ex doesn’t step up to resolve it!

Son was on an impromptu stay with his dad not the regular contact stay with his brothers. So he is obviously not going for forced contact time. We dont know how many times prior to phoning mum he had woken dad up. We dont know know if he woke dad up between phone calls to mum and dad had tried to settle him. Maybe telling him off was a case of saying i have already told you there is nothing to be afraid of now go back to sleep.

And this is why children grow up lacking resilience. No, not ok at all to go and 'rescue' him from his father. Unless you already have serious concerns about dad's parenting (in which case, why was he there?) and by serious, I mean genuinely neglectful or abusive, YWBVU. How dad deals with being woken in the small hours is up to him. You should not have tried to call his dad and you certainly shouldn't have gone out to collect him, especially as it meant leaving 2 other children unattended at home. Your DS has learnt that if he doesn't like how his dad has handled something, you will swoop in and get him. He has learnt that you are the parent 'in charge.' You have really undermined his father and your DS's relationship with his dad. If I were your ex, I'm afraid I'd be fuming. Yes, he potentially handled it badly but that's families. Your DS is 8 not 2 - he would have settled himself in the end and you didn't give dad any chance to manage it his own way before you decided he wasn't competent enough and went in there to get YOUR son. That's what you've made clear here: that he is first and foremost your son.

I do sympathise, in that it's hard when your children are scared and upset and your instinct is to protect them. This wasn't a situation where your DS needed protecting though. I agree that your ex could have been kinder but at that point, DS was no longer alone, he had his father with him and his father was dealing with it. You should have left it at that. What do you think would have happened if you had let his dad get on with it? I can pretty much guarantee no catastrophes and that your son would have gone back to bed. Your interference here wasn't ok.

But perhaps the ex was angry because the ds woke him and said he was on the phone to mummy who had told him to wake him etc etc. Again I can’t imagine that many parents here would be happy if their child had woken them saying they were on the phone to their ex who was telling them what to do and the ex then subsequently swooped round at 3 in the morning and took the child.

All this talk of distress and fear and people being in comas and what not is absolute hysteria and projection. And nobody, literally nobody has said that the child is a manipulative little shit, but I can only assume that the posters who are saying here that the OP did the right thing aren’t single parents themselves so have very little idea of the realities.

The OP originally encouraged the ds to go back to sleep so clearly she didn’t feel the child was in danger or anything like that.