Collecting DS from XDH in middle of night

[clpsmum]

Not sure if I've been unreasonable or not.

8yoDS went for an unplanned sleepover at his dads tonight. I get a phone call from him at 12:40 saying he wants to come home. I tell him to go cuddle his dad and I'll get him in the morning.

1:30 another phone call DS obviously anxious or scared, crying saying his dad is asleep and he is scared and wants to come home. I try to reassure him and tell him I'll get him first thing in the morning but this makes him more upset. Try to call XDH but he doesn't answer. DS calls back I tell him to try and wake his dad which he eventually does. Instead of reassuring him and cuddling him he starts telling him off. Anyway to cut a long story short I went to collect him. XDH absolutely furious with me and with DS. Have i been unreasonable? Should I have just left him to sleepover and collected him tomorrow? DS usually has sleepovers at his dads with his brothers not on his own so not sure if this is what spooked him

I think it's all getting a bit [unnecessarily] nasty - i would get extremely angry. I think you would be the sort of temperament i would not want DC leaving with adaline
I also think there's a bit of actingnout and projecting going on in that non-parenting!

It's not so black and white. We don't know the circumstances under which 8yo went as a one off short-notice alone without dbs with him.

Probably because most times DC are actually forced under law to go to fathers who are nasty bastards, doing things like ignoring their DC emotional needs, things like that.

This ^

So you would not even be slightly pissed off if your ex turned up on your doorstep, announced at 3am and insisted on taking your child @ChristmasSprite - you'd just happily wave him off?

Being angry does not mean showing that anger in front of the child by the way.

I wouldn’t have collect him, he was safe with his dad I presume? He should have been told to go back to sleep. Eight is not a toddler or baby, he is old enough to know he is safe. I don’t blame your ex being annoyed, you’ve created an issue that will cause problems in the future.

The reference to “complete arse” appears to refer to Dad’s parenting.

So first OP was wrong for collecting her obviously anxious or scared, crying child... but now she’s wrong for leaving her child?

But we’re not talking about children on a sleepover with a friend, this child was with his parent.

And history of being a complete arse doesn’t narrow it down imo.

My ex has done things in the past which I don’t agree with, and my sixteen year old no longer stays there for reasons which are his own, but if I’d rocked up there every time he’d been unhappy about something there, or given in every time he’d stalled on going his dad would have had the right to think I was encouraging the breakdown of their relationship.

We absolutely had conversations around the issues, and in time he stopped staying there and now has a relationship with his dad outside of that home. But children absolutely do learn which buttons to push, and the problem with that is that it creates more insecurity not less.

Just look at e.g. step parenting where parents are afraid to challenge behaviours for fear the kids won’t come any more. Sometimes those things are valid but often there is another parent who is happy to encourage it, and remember they’re not children for ever.

My Exh brought one of our DC back on his weekend because she was so miserable. I think she'd have been 3 or 4. I wasn't pleased. I worked full time and 2 small DC and he was a total controlling bastard. I really really valued my DC free time.

I explained to DD that I thought this wasn't on and didn't change my plans or make the rest of the w/e about her. And insisted that she went back the next time it was his weekend.

To be honest I rather regret my actions. She hated going so much. Both DDs ended up taking their Dad to court to stop contact aged 8&9. In the long run I don't know how or if things would have turned out differently.

I knew exh was an abusive cunt, but he loves the kids, so I probably should have grabbed her but it left my other DD totally vulnerable and alone with him. Whereas if your exh is an ok human I think you may have created a problem for yourself on several levels.

There are two polarised views of parenthood hear . One with mother as the 'proper' parent. The de facto arbiter of all correct ways of nurturing the child. Where children are not to be scared, shouted at, or told of. Nor are they expected to self soothe. Mother is expected (and expects) to swoop in and save the child from less 'soft' father.

The other opinion supports the belief that father is an equal parent with an equally valid parenting style of 'stop the noise and go back to bed' . Expecting the child to self soothe and develop independent methods to deal with irrational fears without parental input. (Turn lights on, read a book, play with a toy- independent distraction techniques). His reaction was not to comfort or be sympathetic as it was night time and child should be sleeping. He was probably mirroring the type of behaviour he would have encountered as an 8 yr old.

I agree that going to collect him has undermined the father. Assuming that there are no welfare issues or historic child abuse concerns (which would be very strange seeing as child had voluntarily gone to their fathers) then there is nothing at all wrong with the fathers reaction. Parents nurture in different ways. Teaching self reliance and independent problem solving can be a very valuable lesson leading to independent minded children with the fabulous gift of self reliance.
'Mother' to the rescue- whilst lovely a soft and comforting does little in the long term but play one parent off against the other. A situation that should be avoided at all costs especially by those in the already difficult position of co-parenting from two households.

Loving DC doesn't give abusive cunts rights over DC.

How did they manage to take him to court age 8&9 wobbles?

YABU

I think yabu. He was with his Dad you should have let him deal with it

This isn't right.

It's impossible to tell who is wrong though. Yes telling a kid off isn't ideal. But quite honestly I would be pissed off if my son (he is 7) was up to this is the middle of the night his dad.

But honestly it's hard to tell if the dad is a dick or the op has a history of doing stuff like this, so the child knows exactly how to play the parents off against eachother

You think font? No, the OP doesn't say that.

I don't say that is always my response to everything either, and neither does anyone else. So, no.

There's a difference.

I think you would assume from you boxing us all neatly there that my teens are helpless hapless saps that can't cope with anything independently.

Op gave a specific scenario with some background, and the parent wasn't rousable, either by the 8yo or by phone.

PPs have already said that even as adults parents and other help each other out in the night with untoward noises.

He was alone and heard noises and was scared and couldn't contact anyone. Youd have to go into further detail over this, but, I wouldnt want mine just staying terrified, they need not even much reassurance but for some reason he wanted home. Needs looking into.

I would far father mine have the presence of mind to call someone else if I couldn't be roused and they had concerns.

OP. You did the right thing by your son in picking him up. He's a little boy who was afraid and upset in the middle of the night and any caring parent would've done the same. Your DS will probably be fine this morning so don't make too much fuss about it.

Your ex was a prat and is probably feeling guilty and defensive this morning. Better if DS doesn't stay there again without his brothers.

If my DC’s wake me up crying I would instantly be worried about them not angry!

My dd2 is now 14 and won’t sleep at her dads this is due to 11 years of things like this where she needed comfort and just got anger from him.

If my child had called twice in the middle of the night, distressed and crying, I most certainly would have gone to get him. Its horrible to be so distressed and alone at that age. The kid was clearly scared to wake his dad up, and proven right by his reaction.

You did the right thing. You tried to talk your son into calming down and getting his dad. It didn't work. Not going would have told your child that in a state of distressed, he could count on neither his dad or mum. Now he knows you'll always be there for him. Right decision all around.

I find some of these replies quite upsetting. The child was distressed, Mum tried to calm them but couldn't, Dad couldn't be woke up. Why would Mum put Dad's feelings above the needs of a small scared child. I think you did the right thing.

Font that is bizarre, sounds like MRA. If OP was male and said his ex-wife treated their 8yo like this, I’d say exactly the same. Sex is irrelevant to being a decent parent.

It's awful, and pretty worrying that so many are more worried about the dads anger than the DCs fear/upset.

It does bring abusive fathers to mind, which is why its worrying I guess

@Fontofnoknowledge

I think that applies to much of the parenting debate on Mumsnet. Whether it applies here or not I don’t know.

We also don’t know that the child even tried particularly hard to wake his father. My DH sleeps quite deeply, and if the child knew he wouldn’t get the same sympathy from dad as mum, he may have called mum and done a weak and feeble effort to rouse his father, so that he could confirm to his mum he had tried and not be lying.
A quiet “Dad?” Round the door frame wouldn’t wake my DH. Unless he tried whilst on the phone to his mum??

Anyway, I think YABU, he was safe with a parent.

I don’t think leaving a child alone when they are scared & distressed is going to give them ‘the fabulous gift of self-reliance’. More likely to make them anxious & resentful, I’d have thought.

Me too, Disfordarkchocolate. Can't comment on the OP's situation with so little information, but I hate the way some people leap to assume that a child of that age who is distressed at night is a manipulative little shit who just wants to fuck with his/her parents. I was frequently distraught at night at that age and always got yelled at by my parents and told I was manipulative. Actually, I had severe anxiety and OCD which wasn't diagnosed until I had a breakdown in my twenties. I don't have a very good relationship with my parents now.

Anyway, I think YABU, he was safe with a parent
Except OP had no way to know that. A person who doesn't wake up despite attempts and doesn't respond to the phone. It wouldn't be unconseavable that he was unwell and thats why the child was distressed.

Yes, definitely, Qwerty

If the sleepover was unplanned-how did it come about-who suggested it?

Could he not just have got into bed with his dad?