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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask religious MIL to respect our views?

392 replies

Namedilema123 · 28/12/2018 16:14

PIL are Christians. DH is atheist. Im not atheist but not religious at all and find it all a bit culty.

MIL is always talking about Jesus and God to my 4yo and 2yo. She plays religious nursery rhymes when she looks after them. For Christmas has bought them a Childs First Bible and Child's First Prayer Book. How do i broach this subject? It makes me feel so uncomfortable. Its not so much the religion itself but more it being taught as blind fact, rather than just stories or that some people believe it, others don't. would be much happier if other religions were spoken about too. Or AIBU?

OP posts:
onlyindreams · 30/12/2018 23:44

No your wrong, people slag off Christianity in a way they don't other religions, why deny it ffs, and if a thread comes up that slags it off, expect people to draw attention to the fact that it doesn't happen with other religions. Why are you even arguing, you're beginning to sound like you're arguing for the sake of it. Your argument is nonsensical to tell the truth.

onlyindreams · 30/12/2018 23:46

That was to segmentation

Craft1905 · 30/12/2018 23:53

No your wrong, people slag off Christianity in a way they don't other religions, why deny it ffs,

Not me...I'm an equal opportunities slagger offer. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and all the rest, they are all ridiculous nonsense.

onlyindreams · 30/12/2018 23:58

Now if only more said that Craft we wouldn't have to complain.

PoutySprout · 31/12/2018 00:01

Me too.

I had to have 25th December off work because of a (supposedly) Christian festival though. Ditto good Friday/Easter Monday.

Not so with Jewish/Muslim/Buddhist/Hindu/Sikh festivals, so I tend not to think about them too much.

Some local folk got a bit aggressive on Facebook around bonfire night when fireworks were still being let off. Pointing out it was due to Divali was like man creating fire.......

SegmentationFault · 31/12/2018 00:05

People talk about Christianity in the UK (and by extension UK based forums) because it is the most prominent religion in the UK. Do you really think people are too scared to criticize other religions on an anonymous forum?

ReanimatedSGB · 31/12/2018 00:21

You know, there's a reason why more people are happy for their DC to be told fairy stories about Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy than about Jehovah, Allah, Zeus, etc. The myths surrounding fairies and pixies are a lot less poisonous, on the whole, than those about the imaginary friends who are obsessed with sexual behaviour and brutalising unbelievers - and were invented as a means of social control and to benefit one class over others (eg the core of all the main superstitions remains a silly story about magic stuff other than women choosing to have sex being the cause of pregnancy, so that men could take control of reproduction because their imaginary friend said so...)

I don't mind kids being taught comparitive mythology, history and the political dimensions of all this superstition; it has its uses. But I would also be wary of relatives trying to peddle this crap to them as though it's real/relevant/important.

GunpowderGelatine · 31/12/2018 01:20

I am Christian, but would never dream of shoving my beliefs down other people's throats. A lot of my friends probably don't even know I go to church! YANBU

mabelstanley · 31/12/2018 02:14

Give them the gifts but just tell them they're stories people used to tell to make each other behave. Which is basically what they areSmile

brookshelley · 31/12/2018 03:12

Did your PIL convert to Christianity after your DH had left home? Or was he also raised with these beliefs? If it's the latter, then honestly I feel that's part of your children's heritage and short of it being abusive it's OK for your PIL to expose them to it.

speakout · 31/12/2018 08:55

*Do newborns and toddlers believe in god?

You argument is like saying people who don't want tv on should not be allowed to have the TV off. Off is the default position. It arrives in the box off. You have to make an effort to turn it on.

Atheism in not a belief. In the same way that OFF is not a TV channel, celibacy is not a sex act and failing to collect stamps isn't a hobby.

There isn't a club for people who don't play golf.*

Good explanation.

Heyha · 31/12/2018 09:10

As a fellow atheist I think I'd be happy with the child's first Bible as a nice reading book (plus a lot of the messages are universal to anyone trying to be a good person irrespective of faith) so I'd let that go. MIL will present the contents as facts obviously but at that age I'm sure DC will just enjoy the pictures and the narrative. I've never been a believer but I can appreciate other religions because we had good opportunity to learn about them at primary school, I think that's a healthy aim for an atheist.

The prayer book is different, if you don't pray it isn't going to get a lot of use Hmm so I'd just file that away somewhere...

BertrandRussell · 31/12/2018 09:15

“It's been called poisonous, a fairytale, make believe to name but a few. Of course that's "bashing", and I never said you.”

Ah yes, the old “Oh, I didn’t mean you “ tactic.Grin Poisonous is a bit strong, I agree, although the influence of faiths is pretty pernicious in many areas and parts of the world. Fairytale and make believe? That’s just what many people think of religion. Not bashing. Just stating their truth.

Vitalogy · 31/12/2018 09:16

Do newborns believe in god? They are It. Pure, loving, open, spiritual beings that then get corrupted, whether by religion, atheism or any other idea.

BertrandRussell · 31/12/2018 09:16

And if you think people don’t “bash” Islam, you obviously haven’t read the papers or listened to the public discourse much!

GreenEggsHamandChips · 31/12/2018 09:28

@Namedilema123

Good solution.

ill add I take issue with the bible being a collection of made up stories and I'm an atheist. That's doing them a massive disservice

If you take a non religious perspective the old testament are a collection of stories that record the "history" and "mythologies" of an area of the world and the new testament is testimonials related one person. In both cases they are a collection of facts or stories as the authors saw them or as had been handed down orally to them. Theres historical evidence that the great flood probably did occur (fact), was there a man in a giantic boat who saved all the animals (myth... probably or if there was a man in the boat he didnt save the animals). Was there a man claiming to be the son of God possibly, as these eyewitness accounts testify to that fact, was he actually the son of god, well thats a matter of belief.

The key point is whether you see them as the word of God or a collection of stories about the area of the world in which the bible was based. So is Song of songs a collection of love poems or and allegory of the love vetween God and his followers.

Also its worth talking about how history and fact was passed down the generations in an oral tradition. What looks like made up stories often contains kernels of important "facts" or historical information.

If you're interested in some parrellel reading to the bible. have a look at the welsh mabinogion. Kids version here. or a collection of the pacific Islanders/Maori myths and oral histories.
The Moari/Pacific islander tradions and interesting comparative to the bible creation myths and pre-science attempts to explain the world around them. But reserch suggests they also contained factual historical information and navigational information. The mabinogion has an interesting parallel to the idea of a warrior who will raise again to save his people.

I described the Bible to the kids as a book in which humans try and make sense if the world around them and what has come before them. Religious relatives might not even object to that description themselves.

Bitlost · 31/12/2018 09:42

I’m an atheist and this wouldn’t bother me. Where I drew the line was when PIL told us that they wanted to take DD to be christened and we didn’t need to be there so surely that was ok?!

But I’d be happy for DD to be given a bible and prayer book.

Vitalogy · 31/12/2018 09:59

or a collection of the pacific Islanders/Maori myths Just to make it clear they don't describe them as myths.

The Moari/Pacific islander tradions and interesting comparative to the bible creation myths and pre-science attempts to explain the world around them. Traditional cultures having similar experiences with no physical connection to each other.

flumpybear · 31/12/2018 10:00

@GreenEggsHamandChips - book of historical stories of people on lots of mind altering drugs perhaps? # burning bush, walking on water, feeding the five thousand .... Hmm

GreenEggsHamandChips · 31/12/2018 10:13

Vitalogy

Apologies. What is the right word? Id go for written records of oral traditions if i was trying to be precise

Traditional cultures having similar experiences with no physical connection to each other.
I think that was part of the point i was trying to make but i hadnt made explicitly. It is interesting to notice what all these written collections of oral traditions share. They are massively valuable in representing the history and culture of their areas of origin but they do share a certain universality to them as well.

Vitalogy · 31/12/2018 10:27

What is the right word? Id go for written records of oral traditions if i was trying to be precise The foundation of what is basically the Truth, I know others have issue with this though.

they do share a certain universality to them as well. Indeed.

Craft1905 · 31/12/2018 10:44

Do newborns believe in god?

They are It. Pure, loving, open, spiritual beings that then get corrupted, whether by religion, atheism or any other idea.

Not according to Christianity. Haven't you heard of original sin. Babies are born wicked, and need to go thru a ceremony to wash away the sin they are born with. This is a cornerstone of Christianity.

flumpybear · 31/12/2018 12:18

@Craft1905 - shocking isn't it -
Sounds like a 'guise to get them in young and indoctrinate through fear and guilt

Faith schools need to be banned - any faith - Sxhool is for learning facts, not indoctrination

onlyindreams · 31/12/2018 22:13

*Ah yes, the old “Oh, I didn’t mean you “ tactic.

Certainly not a tactic, how paranoid to presume that.

onlyindreams · 31/12/2018 22:16

BertrandRussell Do you ALWAYS have to have the last word, can't you ever just let things go.