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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask religious MIL to respect our views?

392 replies

Namedilema123 · 28/12/2018 16:14

PIL are Christians. DH is atheist. Im not atheist but not religious at all and find it all a bit culty.

MIL is always talking about Jesus and God to my 4yo and 2yo. She plays religious nursery rhymes when she looks after them. For Christmas has bought them a Childs First Bible and Child's First Prayer Book. How do i broach this subject? It makes me feel so uncomfortable. Its not so much the religion itself but more it being taught as blind fact, rather than just stories or that some people believe it, others don't. would be much happier if other religions were spoken about too. Or AIBU?

OP posts:
Bluelady · 30/12/2018 21:48

Of course I understand it. Sometimes you have to pay the price for your (non) beliefs I guess. It's a choice after all.

BertrandRussell · 30/12/2018 21:50

Oh right. You just don’t give a fuck so long as people of faith are OK.

Fair enough. But at least be honest about it.

SegmentationFault · 30/12/2018 21:51

"if people want to talk about Islam so much, no start a thread about it, nobody has implied they want to"

The fact that you keep bringing it up king of implies that you do.

Bluelady · 30/12/2018 21:54

I think you make your choices. Kindly don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of dishonesty. Or not giving a fuck. If you want a place at a faith school adhere to the faith. That's the deal.

onlyindreams · 30/12/2018 21:54

Not if the admissions criteria excluded them. And that would be rubbish too. Your point
Well my point being, of course they’d be excluded, so why should a Christian school be diffferent. But hang on, Christian schools don’t exclude non Christians anyway, since when. That was to the earlier poster.

onlyindreams · 30/12/2018 21:58

The fact that you keep bringing it up king of implies that you do.
Only in the context of the way people don’t like to criticise it in the same way they do Christianity. It doesn’t imply anything more.

SegmentationFault · 30/12/2018 22:15

This is a thread about Christianity. So obviously people are going to talk about Christianity. If the OP's MIL had given their kid a Quran then no doubt the discussion would be about Islam.

MsChookandtheelvesofFahFah · 30/12/2018 22:20

Of course Christian schools exclude non-Christians! Maybe not your local schools but e.g. in my town non-Christian families are living within 10 yards of a CofE Primary school but have to travel across town, 45 minute car journey to take their 4 year olds to the nearest under-subscribed school, even though they have a school funded by the taxpayer a 2 minute walk away. The said school taking baptised children from over 2 miles away. Why can't the non-Christians get a school closer? Because of the distance criteria, they are too far from the surrounding over-subscribed schools to get a place. The only school they can get in on distance won't have them! A faith school is not an ideal place for a non-believer but somtimes it's the only reasonable choice.

Bluelady, please believe me, there are sometimes no alternatives to faith schools, but I get the impression you don't care anyway.

PoutySprout · 30/12/2018 22:24

A faith school is what it says on the tin. I completely fail to understand why an atheist would wish their child to attend one. It's not as if there aren't alternatives.

Whilst the 1944 Education act is in place, there are no secular alternatives. Even non-faith state schools have to have a “daily act of broadly Christian worship” every fucking day.

Try and change that and the church goes ballistic.

I’d call that “attempting to impose their beliefs on others”

Ditto bank holidays being predominantly linked to —stolen by— Christian—s— festivals and Songs of Praise on the telly.

DodoApplet · 30/12/2018 22:33

For what it's worth, I feel the most important thing is always to encourage your kids to think for themselves, so that by the time they're old enough to start asking themselves who they are and what they're looking for in life, they're sufficiently prepared to be able to find the answers to those questions. All of us need a fundamental set of beliefs both to aspire to and to live by - and if they're still struggling to find them by the time they're ready to start out as young adults, they'll be easy prey for one or other of the more unpleasant cults around who will be only too happy to impose a set of their own.

I don't think I'd worry unduly about those Bible stories, provided they do actually have a moral dimension which children can discern and relate to: after all, your kids will be introduced to them in pretty much the same light as all the stuff about Santa Claus and his flying reindeer that we routinely expect them to accept without question. Learning that people you love sometimes tell you fibs because they believe it's in your best interests is part of growing up. It's not really that hard a mental leap to get from "Do you really believe that Santa came down the chimney last night to leave you these presents?" to "Do you really believe Jesus fed five thousand people with those five loaves and two fishes?". If they can handle one, they ought to be able to cope with the other. Having said that, if your MIL's response to that one is "Well, obviously the one is ridiculous, but the other is absolutely and literally true," then I think you ought to challenge her on it - not viciously, but do it in your kids' hearing. Ask her why she believes it. It doesn't take many "why?"s before it becomes a matter of "Because I do - and no, I can't prove it". Make sure your kids get that bit. It'll be the sort of dilemma they'll have to address many times themselves before they're grown up.

PoutySprout · 30/12/2018 22:35

much the same light as all the stuff about Santa Claus and his flying reindeer that we routinely expect them to accept without question.

Speak for yourself!

DodoApplet · 30/12/2018 22:47

(Well, obviously my kids believe in Santa - because he's real. So there!)

Bechetdiagnosed · 30/12/2018 22:48

Try and change that and the church goes ballistic.

The daily act of worship is set by the Gov and has nothing to do with the CoE as it is not distinctive to any Christian denomination.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281929/Collective_worship_in_schools.pdf

BertrandRussell · 30/12/2018 22:50

“But hang on, Christian schools don’t exclude non Christians anyway, since when.“
Schools with a faith admissions criterion do. And that is 30% of state funded schools.

Why is this so hard to understand?

onlyindreams · 30/12/2018 22:50

This is a thread about Christianity. So obviously people are going to talk about Christianity. If the OP's MIL had given their kid a Quran then no doubt the discussion would be about Islam.

So you’re saying all threads rigidly stick to the subject in hand and nothing else should come into it. Strange, because i don’t think i’ve seen a thread yet that doesn’t veer off to include things pertaining to it. I wasn’t aware people could appoint themselves thread police either. Hmm

Every single time we get a thread (one of the many) where Christianity gets slated, there will always be comments about the fact that it is the only religion where it’s open house to say whatever people want. I remember a thread a few months ago about the apparent increase of young girls and women wearing the veil, (nothing derogatory i might add , very respectful as it should be) there were loads bringing up Christianity in a way as to make comparisons.....or is that different.

Meanwhile, as long as Christianity continues to get it’s bashing, expect people to query why other religions don’t get the same. Perfectly understandable in my, and others opinions. It’s bloody appalling how people feel it’s fine to slag off Christianity but then kick off when their attention is drawn to it. It’s wrong and damn right it should be said.

PoutySprout · 30/12/2018 22:51

As soon as there is a petition to the (welsh) government to change it, the church starts lobbying to keep it exactly as it is.

BertrandRussell · 30/12/2018 22:59

“Meanwhile, as long as Christianity continues to get it’s bashing, expect people to query why other religions don’t get the same”

How has Christianity been “bashed” on this thread? Is disagreeing with faith schools “bashing”?

And I can assure you that I never say anything about Christianity that I would not say about any other faith. How would you like me to prove that to you?

DeepanKrispanEven · 30/12/2018 23:01

A faith school is what it says on the tin. I completely fail to understand why an atheist would wish their child to attend one

The point is that atheists would generally like the somewhat scarce funding that is available for maintained schools to be used for non-faith schools: i.e. they don't want their children to attend faith schools, they want faith schools to be non-faith schools. if there are, say, four maintained state schools in a particular area, and one is a faith school, then atheists only have a choice of three maintained schools whilst those of the relevant faith have a choice of four. It's clearly an inherently unfair and discriminatory system.

PurpleAndTurquoise · 30/12/2018 23:09

Let the children hear the other point of view and let them make up their own minds rather than have your views imposed on them.

If Christians aren't allowed to bring up their own children as Christian ( a view often stated on MM by atheists ) then atheists shouldn't be allowed to bring up their children as atheists.

PS I am not being serious here. Of course parents can and will bring up their own children to have the same beliefs as them but it is interesting to reverse the argument

onlyindreams · 30/12/2018 23:14

How has Christianity been “bashed” on this thread? Is disagreeing with faith schools “bashing”?

It's been called poisonous, a fairytale, make believe to name but a few. Of course that's "bashing", and I never said you.

Craft1905 · 30/12/2018 23:33

Kindly don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of dishonesty.

You were dishonest when you said that you respected everyone. If you don't want to be accused of dishonesty, don't be dishonest.

SegmentationFault · 30/12/2018 23:36

FFS I'm not trying to 'appoibt myself the thread police's. I'm saying that if people are talking about Christianity rather than Islam, then it's probably because that's the topic of the thread and not because people are scared or not allowed to or whatever bullshit people use to deflect criticism from their own religion.

Badadadum · 30/12/2018 23:39

It’s exhausting isn’t it? Trying to explain inequality of state school admissions to Christians - who would have thought they’d find it hard to understand - I guess why bother trying - it’s not in their interests and after all it’s not like anyone will judge them for their lack of objection to inequality - wash your hands off it!
So part of my reason for objecting to the Christianity I was brought up in was hypocrisy and you see it right here...and where we live with the school admissions, I’m alright Jack - Jesus would be proud? - if you actually believed in him beyond self interest!

Craft1905 · 30/12/2018 23:41

If Christians aren't allowed to bring up their own children as Christian ( a view often stated on MM by atheists ) then atheists shouldn't be allowed to bring up their children as atheists.

But they are atheists! Do newborns and toddlers believe in god?

You argument is like saying people who don't want tv on should not be allowed to have the TV off. Off is the default position. It arrives in the box off. You have to make an effort to turn it on.

Atheism in not a belief. In the same way that OFF is not a TV channel, celibacy is not a sex act and failing to collect stamps isn't a hobby.

There isn't a club for people who don't play golf.