To ask if anybody on here is pro-life?

[Teeandee]

When it comes to the subject of abortion I've noticed a high number of people on here are very pro-choice and support abortion. Is there anybody else, like me, who doesn't?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion of course and I don't think badly of anybody who has had a termination and I don't judge. It's only my personal outlook and life experiences that shape my view and was wondering if I really am in the minority here?

“What gives you the right to demand that "society" (Just other people really) have a responsibility to foster or adopt those unwanted children? “

It’s my personal belief that civilisation gives us a collective responsibility to look after the weakest amongst us. Society IS me. It is my taxes. What on Earth is wrong with saying that we, as an organised society, with a welfare state system, should care for neglected kids?

But actually I think it would be better if MORE women had terminations instead of giving birth to kids they don’t want or won’t or can’t look after. Not because I resent that the state cares for them, I don’t, but because it creates so much misery.

I don't believe my dps female cousin injection heroine into her veins is ok. Does that make me a misogynist? I wouldn't say so. Do I try and stop her, nope... because it's really none of my business.

Oh and i have to think of them as 'just a bundle of cells' because if I think of them as anything more it quite frankly makes me want to kill myself.

You are welcome to your opinions and moral views Drogosnextwife provided that you don't impose them on other people (specifically women) where you have no business doing so.

I have no interest in putting anyone down or shutting them up - anyone can be as anti abortion as they like but they have no business imposing their view on anyone else. Anyone who is anti abortion needn't have one. Men who are anti abortion need to check out their partner's view beforehand if they want to avoid it.

I argue that the decision as to whether to proceed with the pregnancy should be made by the woman herself. And my view is that forcing an unwilling woman to proceed with an unwanted pregnancy is fundamentally misogynistic.

Porpentina . I am so sorry.
You were abused and badly let down.
I know it is too easy to say ‘don’t feel guilty’ but you had things FINE to you, and neither you, nor as you say, any potential future child, should have to be the victim of your brother’s criminal abuse or your own mother’s negligent emotional abuse.
I am very sorry you were out through that. I hope you have better people, a new family, supporting you now.

Porpentina I'm so sorry for what you went through.

‘DONE ‘ to you, not ‘fine ‘

There is nothing wrong with it but ultimately it takes individual people to look after those children, so you can give as much money as you like but without actual people doing the physical job of looking after those children it's pointless.

Thank you Jill and Twisted.

I know I shouldn't feel guilty but i still do. It's not a massive gut wrenching guilt. But it's always there at the back of my mind.

I've got a lovely partner who knows nothing of my past. He knows something happened,. but I've never felt the need to tell him exactly what. And 2 wonderful children who never need to know.

My relationship with my mum is hit and miss. My brother moved to the states so I never have to see him.

And to everyone who shared their story here.

Porpentina I am so sorry that you had to go through that. I know it is really easy to say this but you have nothing to feel guilty about. The guilt belongs to others; you were the victim of your brother's criminal actions and lack of the support you should have had.

@PorpentinaScamander I'm so very sorry for everything you've been through. I won't insult you by pretending to know what I'd do in your situation as I've no idea how you must have felt. You were an abused child and I'd never in a million years judge you for aborting under those circumstances and I don't think anybody else would either

to you Porpentina.

Drogo: we are discussing abortion, Can you tell me how my view that women should have the right to decide what happens in their bodies is connected to your view that I am morally defunct because I do not make specific interventions in tne lives of neglected children?

A decision you have come to without knowing what other specific targeted charitable / volunteering / professional interventions on behalf of other vulnerable people I might be involved in.

connected to your view that I am morally defunct because I do not make specific interventions in tne lives of neglected children?

Oh no I don't think you are, I just don't think you should use it as an argument.

A decision you have come to without knowing what other specific targeted charitable / volunteering / professional interventions on behalf of other vulnerable people I might be involved in.

None of that has any relation to this discussion so not sure why it would be relevant.

I am using it as an example to demonstrate what I believe is the difference between a born human being who has the right to be protected by the laws of a civilised society, and an unborn foetus which cannot and I. My view should not be protected by over-riding the choice or feelings of the pregnant woman.

Once a child is born, it has rights and deserves society’s support.
Before it is born it is dependent on the choice of the owner of the body, not society.

But actually I think it would be better if MORE women had terminations instead of giving birth to kids they don’t want or won’t or can’t look after. Not because I resent that the state cares for them, I don’t, but because it creates so much misery.

I agree. I also think more terminations, especially more terminations in the later stages of pregnancy, would indicate that more women were escaping abusive and exploitative relationships. So often domestic abuse begins in pregnancy and it's very difficult for women to sort through the gas lighting and comprehend what's happening early enough to terminate before 24 weeks. Obviously many women will want to continue with the pregnancy but as always, for me, it should be a matter of the woman's choice.

@PorpentinaScamander you should never feel any guilt, you should never have had to go through that. Thank you so much for sharing.

BertrandRussell

Thjs is an example of the sort of half argument that needs to be made. Women are not God. I'm not even slightly religious but the plain and very obvious reality is that the foetus in my womb does not become something other than what it already was if I change my mind about it. No one is buying this as a moral justification for abortion.

I am yet to hear of a compelling moral argument for abortion outside of extreme cases involving rape and abuse. If it's due to a contraception failure then as I said earlier on, your sexual desire combined with not wanting to be pregnant does not morally justify killing something. There is some hand wringing about what exactly is being killed and the nonsense about it only having value if the mother decrees it.

Having someone else perform a complex procedure on your body is nothing to do with bodily autonomy, that's another logic fail.

I believe (despite being pro choice to a limited degree) that there is no moral justification for abortion outside of extreme cases, there just isn't. It can be acceptable to some due to the grey areas about when life begins, so it doesn't seem obviously wrong. Late term abortion fails this test, since most people do regard it (in general) as obviously wrong..hence why the law is actually spot on IMO.

All of the other stuff like "only the uterus owner get a say on what happens with their body" quickly fail the socratic method e.g. commmercial surrogacy or the willingness of medical staff etc etc, the numerous laws that exist constraining what I can put in my body or do with it.

There is no moral justification for killing something just because you wanted to have sex, but don't want to be pregnant. Someone asked earlier about contraception, I'm all for that and don't consider it in any way a moral issue.

ElonMask 24 years ago I was forced into.an abortion at 18 weeks by an ex who has used our impending family to get discharged from a serious assault on me in court. No one asked me or offered support, I just had someone waiting outside to make sure it was done or else

Porpentina. The fact that you had to undergo two abortions is tragic for both you and the babies. However, you had no real choice under the terrible circumstances in which you found yourself.The fault lies solely with the man who abused you and your family who failed to support you, and you should feel no guilt. I hope that life has treated you more kindly since.

“ it's due to a contraception failure then as I said earlier on, your sexual desire combined with not wanting to be pregnant does not morally justify killing something”

We have different moral beliefs. I think it does. I think I was morally justified to put an end to a 7 week foetus because I did not want to be tied to poverty, tied to parenthood of a child when I did not want to be a mother, or be pregnant and give birth to a child who may have felt lifelong rejection issues if given up for adoption.

I'm totally pro-life for me. I don't think I have any right to make that decision for anyone else, and no-one else (or their religion) has the right to make the decision for me.

I’d love to know what the forced birthers would do if their 13 year old daughter got pregnant after being raped.

forced birthers

This sort of hyperbolic language is pointless. Everyone knows that a pregnant woman is not "forced" to be pregnant. But go on the, who or what is it that does the forcing ? God ? There is a religious element to the language which is odd. Without access to technology that enables me to fly, am I forced to obey the laws of gravity ?

We have different moral beliefs. I think it does.

Let me put it a slightly different way, you are not morally entitled to have sex free from the biological reality of what the act might entail.

If you prevent a woman from having an abortion you are forcing her to give birth. That’s not hyperbole, it’s simple fact.