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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if anybody on here is pro-life?

999 replies

Teeandee · 28/12/2018 15:02

When it comes to the subject of abortion I've noticed a high number of people on here are very pro-choice and support abortion. Is there anybody else, like me, who doesn't?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion of course and I don't think badly of anybody who has had a termination and I don't judge. It's only my personal outlook and life experiences that shape my view and was wondering if I really am in the minority here?

OP posts:
MaisyPops · 29/12/2018 09:47

TwistedStitch
But there are people seeking to make the debate more nuanced.

The abortion debate isn't pro life vs pro choice. Pro life is a silly euphemism commondeered by people who seek to limit women's rights by placing a positive spin on their view. Being pro life is not incomparable with being pro choice. I know many pro choice people who find the concept of abortion uncomfortable and would rather better education and contraception existed over abortion.

The abortion debate is whether someone is pro choice or anti choice. Someone's personal feelings on life and personhood are for them. Either someone believes women should have the ability to choose or they believe that women should have their freedom and rights restricted.

bumbleymummy
Because it suits both sides to present their take as reasonable and the other side as horrible and immoral. Accepting that most people will have an opinion in the middle on a moral issue doesn't appeal for activists on either end because it is more difficult to throw around emotive words and straw men.

Firstbornunicorn · 29/12/2018 09:49

I haven't RTFT, but I can imagine what it's like.

I'm pro-life, OP.

But I do think we need a more nuanced debate around how we align care for the mother with the sanctity of the life inside of her. Pro-birth and pro-life are not the same. To me, pro-life means having an equal respect for both lives.

FestiveNut · 29/12/2018 09:53

@Helmetbymidnight
@twistedsister

No she's not- according to people on my last thread, unless you support 'as early as possible, as late as necessary' you cannot call yourself pro-choice. Or were they wrong?

JudasPrudy · 29/12/2018 09:57

I am pro choice. I believe that every child should be a wanted child. I do worry about the morality of abortion and when life begins. But then I've had 3 first term miscarriages and I wouldn't say I have lost 3 babies, just 3 pregnancies. They weren't babies yet.

Pregnancy loss is pretty shit and I don't think very many women take the decision to terminate a pregnancy lightly.

Helmetbymidnight · 29/12/2018 09:59

Afaic, They were wrong and also a minority in the movement if that’s what they were arguing.

I’m happy with where we are in the law -
If you don’t want to make abortion illegal, I would call you pro-choice too, and I would be grateful for your support.

AcornLane · 29/12/2018 09:59

If the mother is going to die and is medically in need of one to save her life.

At risk of depression,isolation or other ailments. No. We should step up and support those women and families in our society.
Pro life and Pro birth are reasonable stand points.

We’re not anti women. We support all life. It’s a positive thing

MaisyPops · 29/12/2018 10:00

FestiveNut
I remember that thread. There were lots of people saying abortion to term for any reason is the only way to be pro choice and if you aren't in favour of abortion on demand for any reason to 39 weeks then you aren't pro choice.

More nuanced debate is probably where most of the general population sit.

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 10:07

I'm happy with the current law and consider myself pro choice- I support as late as necessary for medical reasons which is where I believe the law is too. If people don't think that makes me pro choice then that's up to them. I would probably extend the time limit for social reasons given the usually desperate circumstances the few women presenting so late for non medical reasons face- they don't suddenly go away because the pregnancy hits 24 weeks and I don't think a blanket ban after that point is helpful. But I'm concerned that any attempts to change the law would result in it being more restricted so I'd rather leave well alone.

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 10:11

I don't understand abortion at 39 weeks? Surely at 39 weeks pregnancy can be ended by induction, or even CS under anaesthetic if necessary which preserves the right of the woman to no longer be pregnant.

MaisyPops · 29/12/2018 10:12

Twisted

Lots of people holding your view (and I agree with you by the way on the current law) were told categorically on a recent thread that makes them not pro choice at all.
Termination on demand for any reason up to birth was the definition of pro choice presented by some posters.

3WildOnes · 29/12/2018 10:15

I’m pro life. I think the limit should be reduced to 8 weeks unless continuation of the pregnancy endangers the mother’s life or if the baby would be born into a life of physical pain.
I think there should be much more support to help women leave abusive situations and as single parents.

JacquesHammer · 29/12/2018 10:19

I think the limit should be reduced to 8 weeks unless continuation of the pregnancy endangers the mother’s life or if the baby would be born into a life of physical pain

I didn’t find out I was pregnant (with a wanted baby) until I was 8 weeks Confused

I think there should be much more support to help women leave abusive situations and as single parents

Where’s this miraculous support coming from?

I’m a single parent. I am wholly self-sufficient. An accidental pregnancy would mean no work, therefore benefits, losing my house and my existing child being homeless. I would love to know how that would be prevented?

Or in reality I’m responsible, continue to be self-sufficient and have an abortion leaving my daughter unaffected.

ChristmasTwatteryDoesMyHeadIn · 29/12/2018 10:20

I’m pro choice.

Do I agree with every reason given for a termination? No. But then I don’t have to, it’s not about me.

Restricting and judging reasons becomes very muddy waters, which makes it harder to access safe, legal and supported terminations. Which is never good, look at statistics for home done terminations, or worse, back alley terminations.

Is it nice? No, of course it’s not.

Is it necessary? Absolutely.

And because of that, my attitude is “as early as possible, as late as is necessary”.

Let’s not kid on there are women at 20 + weeks seeking a termination because they changed their mind. The vast majority of late term terminations are for medical reasons, hugely traumatic to the woman, and not sought or given lightly.

I also think that emotional support must be available (if wanted or needed) because it’s not a simple thing to choose for many women.

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 10:21

Ah I somehow missed that debate despite being on the other thread, I saw some people arguing for abortion to term but I didn't realise not supporting that was seen as not being pro choice.

I think the definition of medical reasons should possibly be extended- I struggle with the idea of sending away somebody like woman living in chaotic and difficult circumstances, children already in care, MH problems, taking drugs throughout her pregnancy etc because she presents at a clinic at 24+1 and it's considered a social abortion. I don't see what purpose forcing her to bring that pregnancy to term serves and it seems cruel to everybody. So as I said I would support an extension for the 'hard cases' who need it. But on balance I think the law gets it right most of the time.

Stickmanslittleleaf · 29/12/2018 10:24

3 what about alcoholics or drug addicts? Who will not stop using during the pregnancy and thus may be damaging the baby and giving it lifelong consequences?

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 10:34

8 weeks doesn't really give much time to discover you are pregnant, get an appointment, make decisions. I'd imagine it would force women to have abortions because they are scared of missing the limit, when given time they may have decided not to. Who would want women to have abortions because they feel rushed and pressured, rather than because they are sure it is best for them? What is the significance of 8 weeks?

ChristmasTwatteryDoesMyHeadIn · 29/12/2018 10:35

All the people posting caveats though, don’t you realise that that’s making it harder? Making the whole process more traumatic and invasive?

Women aren’t walking wombs. As soon as you start putting caveats on terminations, that’s what we become.

PixieCutRegret · 29/12/2018 10:37

I don't understand abortion at 39 weeks? Surely at 39 weeks pregnancy can be ended by induction, or even CS under anaesthetic if necessary which preserves the right of the woman to no longer be pregnant.

Twisted that is what I tried to say on the other thread, but I was told that unless you are in favour of a procedure where they partially deliver the baby, drain the fluid from it's head and collapse it's skull before delivering the rest (a procedure that's safer for the woman) then you are against women having autonomy over her body Hmm

I thought I was pro choice as I am in agreement with the law as it stands, but apparently not!

Things about abortion do make me uneasy, I think it's sad the abortion rate has increased since the two child rule as I wonder how many of those women would have otherwise made the choice to keep their babies. You also see many threads on MN where women abort for their partners and again you wonder if it is really thier 'choice'. I don't think these are reason enough to restrict the law though.

tenbob · 29/12/2018 10:38

3wild

Just out of interest, how many hours a week do you volunteer to support vulnerable women?

And how much do you donate to Women’s Aid etc?

Racecardriver · 29/12/2018 10:39

I am very much shaded of grey/balancing or interests/creating laws the allow mothers to kill feotuses carried to term in the womb is not right but I don’t presume to know when is an acceptable line for elective abortions etc. I do however think that early term abortions strike a correct balance of interest in that they merely require termination of a pregnancy rather than an outright killing of a feotus that is capable of surviving if the pregnancy is terminated and it also presents a solution to the problem of unwanted children in the face of unreliable contraceptives and risky sexual behaviours. Obviously when it comes to medically necessitated abortions I leave the having if opinions to doctors and patients.

malificent7 · 29/12/2018 10:42

I think women, as the creators of life should have the decision if that life continues or not if under a certain age. I think the current law is fine.

bumbleymummy · 29/12/2018 10:45

Tenbob, can we ask you the same question? What do you do to ensure woman have everything they need to make the choices they want in life?

AtSea1979 · 29/12/2018 10:48

I am pro choice but the choice is often in terms of abortion. I felt I was given no choice to keep my baby. My parents told me to get an abortion, and told the headmaster of my school who also told me I couldn’t come back until I had an abortion. I did at 11 weeks and subsequently went on to have four miscarriages.

PixieCutRegret · 29/12/2018 10:49

I'm so sorry that happened to you AtSea1979 Flowers

BertrandRussell · 29/12/2018 10:54

“I think there should be much more support to help women leave abusive situations and as single parents“

Yes, so do I. What’s tgt got to do with abortion?

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