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Original poster

To ask if anybody on here is pro-life?

999 replies

Teeandee · 28/12/2018 15:02

When it comes to the subject of abortion I've noticed a high number of people on here are very pro-choice and support abortion. Is there anybody else, like me, who doesn't?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion of course and I don't think badly of anybody who has had a termination and I don't judge. It's only my personal outlook and life experiences that shape my view and was wondering if I really am in the minority here?

OP posts:
Fluffiest · 29/12/2018 00:15

I'm not sure how many minds you'll change by repeatedly referring to abortion as killing people or comparing aborted foetuses to murder victims. To me it is very extreme language that just alienates me from any argument you are trying to make.

Yeah, I get that. I use these terms because the ground that I can't give on this matter is that babies in the womb are real human beings therefore we need to apply the same logic that we would use for ending the life of people who are already born.

The words we normally use to describe that are killing, murder and victims.

That's why this argument matters and why it is emotive. We are talking about ending human life.

The justifications I normally see are

  1. They aren't real people
  2. Their existence harms others
  3. They are better off dead

I don't believe these justifications hold up to much scrutiny. And are not good enough, IMHO to end a person's life, or kill them. Therefore I am pro life.

blindmusicmum · 29/12/2018 00:15

I am pro-life in the sense that I don't agree with abortion. However, i believe it could be done if there is a medical issue that means the one could die. A part from that, I am pro-life. Making sure education about using the means to stop pregnancy is key.

MyDcAreMarvel · 29/12/2018 00:15

My deleted comment was not intended to cause anyone distress and I apologise if it did. I would never have made the comment on a thread where someone was discussing their own abortion choices. Despite being pro life I do not judge or are in any way unsupportive to friends who have had abortions.
It does completely baffle me however why people view a premature baby differently to a fetus of the same gestation. I would be very interested to know the opinion of someone who is pro choice.

KidLorneRoll · 29/12/2018 00:16

Even if you can look past how utterly morally bankrupt the pro-life argument is, the fact is that denying access to safe abortion kills thousands upon thousands of women each year.

People need to grow up and accept that abortions are going to happen. It's not a choice between abortions and no abortions. It's a choice between safe and unsafe abortion - women dying or women not dying.

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 00:20

Yes I understand that you believe aborted foetuses are comparable with born murder victims. That is precisely why you would never persuade me to change my mind. You appear almost oblivious to the fact that the foetus is residing in and dependent upon another person's body and the massive impact and harm that can have. There is little acknowledgement of the desperate and difficult circumstances women find themselves in, no empathy, emotional insight, nuance. Just the repeated mantra about killing people.

Christmasisforadults2 · 29/12/2018 00:20

Having two dc close together isn't the same.
Of course I wouldn't of wanted to be aborted now but I wouldn't of known, and at a very young I wish I hadn't been born.

My mother will always resent my birth and should of not had me. Growing up with the constant guilt that I was the cause of her troubles. Still to this day, actually yesterday she announced I'm dead to her.

I was very pro life until I experienced life.

nails2018 · 29/12/2018 00:22

Imagine if terminations were not possible, and women were forced to give birth no matter what their circumstances. In the UK we have the luxury of debating whether we would or wouldn't. And we need to keep that option. The alternative (as we can see in the US) is unthinkable.

KidLorneRoll · 29/12/2018 00:23

" We are talking about ending human life."

No, we are talking about ending the potential for human life. That is a very different thing, especially compared to the woman who is a human life and is the only person who can make the decision as to whether she is willing and able to go through pregnancy and care for a baby. Not you, not the law, nobody.

WestBerlin · 29/12/2018 00:24

Abortion may be killing but it is not murder, murder being the unlawful killing of a born person. Abortion is not unlawful, and fetuses are not recognised as people until they are born.

That said, were they persons they would STILL not have the right to utilize the body of another person in the way in which a fetus does during pregnancy.

For me it isn’t whether a fetus is alive or not, it’s whether or not a woman has bodily autonomy and whether legal abortion is better than the reality or illegal abortion (because that is what will happen if abortion is criminalized).

WanderingTrolley1 · 29/12/2018 00:24

Pro life.

Fluffiest · 29/12/2018 00:26

There is little acknowledgement of the desperate and difficult circumstances women find themselves in, no empathy, emotional insight, nuance. Just the repeated mantra about killing people.

I do have empathy for women who have unwanted pregnancies. I really do. But I can have empathy and still believe it is wrong to end the life of the babies, because I also have empathy for the baby.

I feel sorry for lots of people but I don't think we can use hardship as a reason to end the life of others.

And I know, you don't like me talking about killing people but my whole objection to abortion is that it is the deliberate ending of an innocent life.

To not talk about this aspect would be like trying to object to fox hunting without talking about the bit where the fox dies.

KidLorneRoll · 29/12/2018 00:27

"Imagine if terminations were not possible,"

We don't need to imagine it. In undeveloped countries the mortality rate from unsafe abortion is is 220 deaths per 100 000 unsafe abortions in developing regions and 520 deaths per 100 000 unsafe abortions in sub-Saharan Africa (from the WHO).

Compare that to a mortality rate in the UK due to abortion of 1 death due to abortion in 2016. Just one.

But yeah, let's keep calling it "pro-life".

MyDcAreMarvel · 29/12/2018 00:27

Twisted stitch you do not know my circumstances. I have had an unplanned pregnancy with a disabled dd, I am now disabled, in part due to that pregnancy. I was very frightened , desperate and unwell.
I empathise with not wanting to be organised I would have done anything for the conception not to have happened .

Fluffiest · 29/12/2018 00:28

No, we are talking about ending the potential for human life

Why do you think babies in the womb aren't human?

MyDcAreMarvel · 29/12/2018 00:28

Wanting to be pregnant not organised.

KidLorneRoll · 29/12/2018 00:30

Because they aren't. They are a collection of cells that may turn into a human. They may not.

I do, however, know for a fact that the woman carrying those cells is a human. Why do you think her rights should be ignored in favour of a collection of cells? Why do you think women should die due to not having access to safe abortion?

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 00:30

You can talk about killing people all you like, it doesn't bother me because I don't agree and you just sound strange to me. I was just commenting because you stated that you want to try to change people's minds, that your use of language isn't likely to do that.

NoShelfElf · 29/12/2018 00:31

I am pro choice but uncomfortable with abortion. I think every effort should be made to prevent unwanted pregnancies but that where this fails, or where rape or illness is present, no judgement should be made of anyone making such a huge and often heartbreaking decision. Thankfully, my pregnancies have been planned and not resulted in risk to me or my healthy babies. Others aren't so fortunate.

AcornLane · 29/12/2018 00:33

Surely you’re either fully pro life or fully pro choice. I never understand those with conditions attached to their view. Pro life apart from fatal abnormalities etc makes no sense to me. All life is equal. Even if that life won’t survive long after birth. Similarly with pro choice but only up to 20 weeks for example. What happens after that? Does something change at this point or whatever week/stage some pro choicers determine ?

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 00:33

Was that comment to me in response to any particular post I made MyDCareMarvel*? I don't recall saying anything to you.

MyDcAreMarvel · 29/12/2018 00:35

Apologise twisted stitch I thought you were.

MyDcAreMarvel · 29/12/2018 00:35

*Apologies

TwistedStitch · 29/12/2018 00:39

It's fine, I was responding to Fluffiest. I will say though that it's interesting that you say I don't know your circumstances. You don't know the circumstances of all the women in need of abortions either.

Fluffiest · 29/12/2018 00:53

*Because they aren't. They are a collection of cells that may turn into a human. They may not.

I do, however, know for a fact that the woman carrying those cells is a human. Why do you think her rights should be ignored in favour of a collection of cells? Why do you think women should die due to not having access to safe abortion?*

Technically, you are just a collection of cells. We all are! Where do you draw the line between collection of cells and real person?

I think women should have lots of rights over their own bodies but I don't agree that we should have the right to destroy another person's body even if it is rescinding in our own. It would be great if babies were born in pods in the ground but they are not. Blame evolution but its not the baby's fault.

Also bit unfair to say that I think women should go and die through illegal abortion. I think abortion is wrong and I hope that more women will come to that conclusion and choose not to have abortions.

WestBerlin · 29/12/2018 00:59

It’s not unfair though, it’s the reality. All debates as to whether the fetus is alive or not, should have rights or not, have no bearing on the reality that women will have abortions whether you agree or not, whether it’s legal or not.

www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2017/worldwide-estimated-25-million-unsafe-abortions-occur-each-year

25 million unsafe abortions each year, 45% of all abortions performed worldwide. That’s the reality of pro life laws.