Hunting without the actual fox

[itsbritneybiatches]

This is just caused a bit of a row in our house.

Family member comes into the room where I am and says how disgustingly it is that the supporters were kicking off and a 15'year old was pushed off a horse.

Now I am very very anti fox hunting and I said I am the last person you want to speak to about this as I do not agree with fox hunting on any level.

They continued about how bad it was that this 15 year old has been pushed from the horse and I responded with a comment along the lines of they shouldn't of Been on the horse to go out and do that kind of thing, no sympathy whatsoever.

Apparently now they don't hunt foxes. Just pre laid trails.

So if a fox is then smelt on the way of the pre laid trails, willl the hounds hunt that or the pre laid trail?

I just can't get my head round a sport that is to chase an animal, to its death. The torment that animal Must go through in the name of sport it just disgusts me. Who could actually enjoy that.

Lockhart

No I agree, I wouldn't push anybody off a horse because I thought they might be doing anything I'd be too scared to get that close to a horse tbh

If a 15 year old told me they tortured an animal at the weekend I wouldn't assault them either, though would likely report them, tell parents etc

but the original statement that it would be unreasonable to cause injury to a 15 year old to protect an animal in any circumstances is bizarre.

Oh I see @Ragevibration - apologies!

It's pretty obvious that there are 2 entirely opposing views...

The reality is that some hunts do still look for foxes and that many do lay and follow trails. Round here we have 1 of the former and a couple of the latter. The local running club lays the trails.

Sabs do hurt people, animals and property, all the time. I've had my car wrecked, smashed with pickaxes, purely for living in a village. I have seen sabs kicking hounds and whipping horses... They then used pictures of the last marks as evidence that the rider was cruel.

Many of the pictures sabs use, PETA too, are either very old, well doctored or staged. Not saying all of them but some of them.

Hunting is illegal. Trail hunting is not be and it really does exist.

Sabs really can be extremely violent!

Neither side is 'good' but Sabs are, in my very recent experience, vile and indiscriminate.

And no, I don't hunt, ride a horse it have any connection to any hunt. I just get abused because I live rurally.

hunts on a pre- laid trail are great fun. never seen any pack go away from tbe (strong!!!!) tra for any real animal. most of europe does” hunts” like this, and its fun! wouldn’t ever go after a real fox though

Yes I know some drag hunting hounds which follow human quarry. No foxes ever been killed on this hunt. Nor do they want to.

The master of this hunt is very anti fox hunting himself.

@ stuckforthefourthtime but anyone who has seen what a fox can do to a chicken run knows that they kill for fun*

Yes, that's right, and when the chicken owner discovers what has happened, the foxes are nearby, hiding behind a hedge, pointing and giggling!

Of course foxes don't kill for fun, what a ridiculously stupid thing to say. A fox probably doesn't have any concept of fun, just surviving.

It kills as much as it can, and left to it's own devices, would carry the kill away to its den bit by bit over a period of time. But the carnage is discovered before it gets the chance.

It does what it does following millions of years of evolution, not because of "fun".

FFS!!!!

Foxes never kill for fun

They build up a pantry of prey animals so they always have something to eat even when they can’t find anything fresh

That’s why the kill all the chickens

They leave some behind because they can’t carry them all at the same time, fully intending on going back.

However the owner then spots chickens are dead and fox doesn’t get the chance to reclaim them

Sabs are nice and polite? Fucking hell, some seriously deluded posts on here.

Seeing the pic on FB this morning of a wanker with a bloody face brought a smile to mine. 15 or not. No sympathy from me. Fuck them, hopefully they'll all fall off and break their fucking necks.

I live in a rural village ,did lots of riding when i was younger .I abhor fox hunting and yes i do think that they do chase and tear to bits ,foxes .But there is no excuse for a 15yr old to be pushed from a horse. Two wrongs dont make a right. I have had chickens ,never lost one to the fox but i have dogs so maybe that and fact i made my coop as foxproof as i could help .But if i had have it what the fox does ,they dont sit there and think what fun can i have today,they need to eat .I have friends that are farmer's they dont allow the hunt on their land because of damage caused .
We have also had badger baiting happen locally which is equally as cruel .Those that hunt can have their say as is their right .But how is it ever right to chase a terrified animal down and rip it to pieces by dogs . If numbers need controlling there are more humane ways .Oh and if you meet the hunt as i have regulary in the past ,they will not move out of the road even when imformed you need to get to work .Another reason they get a bad name ,arrogance abounds a lot ,well in our local hunt anyway.

Not the first time youve condoned violence towards a child on here I seem to remember Eliza

15 is old enough to make an informed choice about what they are doing.

you can't have it both ways. If they are
A child wtf are they doing on a hunt.

You join the army at 16 ffs.

You can’t have it both ways. If they are a child wtf are they doing on a hunt?

What a strange comment. Children are allowed to ride horses.

I don't hunt, have never been hunting and have no interest in doing so, but I used to keep my old horse on a livery yard with a few people who did. None of them were animal-torturing psychopaths in daily life and from what I could gather, the attraction of hunting for them was not the kill (most of them never used to stay to the end of the day anyway because their horses weren't fit enough), it was the opportunity to ride their horses at speed over an unknown route, jumping fences they'd never usually be allowed to jump in countryside they'd never usually be allowed to ride over. They weren't toffs either - one lived in a caravan to be able to afford to keep her horse.

I have no doubt that some hunts use trail hunting as a smokescreen to hunt foxes, and that's obviously wrong, but pulling a 15 year old off their horse is downright dangerous. Wherever you stand on the hunting debate, this child was participating in an activity that is at least notionally if not actually legal, depending on whether this particular hunt was intending to hunt a trail rather than a fox, and risking injury to a child for participating in a legal activity isn't a course of action I can get on board with supporting.

Not a strange comment at all. No issue with children riding horses. My own daughter rides.

But she doesn't go riding to hunt an animal so it can be ripped apart for fun.

Apparently since the ban came into force hunting has never been more popular, so I’d say that the majority of people taking part aren’t there for the kill.

If you look on fb for the Devon county hunt sabs page there's a video from yesterday of the Eggesford hunt killing a fox. The hunters think it's hilarious with their comments to the hounds of "oh, naughty boy, you weren't supposed to do that, etc".

And then when a sab has got the dead fox in her arms the hunt master thinks it's funny that the hounds are still trying to get the fox and won't call them off.

Video here of the same hunt attacking some hunt monitors violently and riding their horses into them. Apparently the Devon and Cornwall police wildlife crime officer is a member of the hunt which probably explains lack of police interest.

Hunt saboteurs are awful, awful people. The sort of people who delight at the injury of a child.

It’s pretty rare nowadays that anyone does legitimate fox hunting, I’ve been hunting Boxing Day since I could ride and never once witnessed a Fox being killed, down in Devon we do actually understand that the law has changed and the group I ride out with respects it. We tend to meet up on Boxing Day, have a drink to calm the nerves and just gallop around fields with the dogs, it’s pretty easy to deter the dogs from scent of Fox by simply whistling and shouting and I must say it’s great fun. In all the years I’ve done it we’ve never ever had sabs either, so I feel I have no opinion for the sabs or for the hunters.
I will completely agree that fox hunting is WRONG but the sport of riding with loads of people through fields on Boxing Day is our tradition and we love it and will always do it, anyone who would try to stop us riding around (thinking we were fox hunting) would be told to mind their own business and to get off the farmers land (before we rode out we get permission from the land owners, we never ride on public or main roads).

This is the last time I’m going to assert this OP because you seem to be completely unable to understand this point that myself and plenty of PPs have made. Maybe you’ll get it this time however I doubt it....

It doesn’t matter if the human being that got pulled off of the horse was 5, 15 or 55, you cannot keep the moral high ground if someone/anyone/anything gets hurt. Damning violence to animal whilst condoning violence to a human completely discredits your argument and just makes you a hypocrite. It doesn’t matter what species the blood came from, violence is unacceptable.

I don’t support fox hunting but anybody that hurts a person is just as bad and sullies the real cause.

When I say Devon respects it I didn’t mean it like that, just the small area I live in!

Hunts are clearly still hunting foxes.

But she doesn't go riding to hunt an animal so it can be ripped apart for fun.

Do you have any evidence that the 15-year old was planning to do this? Or does he deserve to be injured just because some hunts sometimes break the law?

I had about 15 hounds blundering through our farm a few weeks ago, taking down fences, through chickens, in lamb sheep and past the front windows so our dogs went wild.

No one could recall them and the only response was a trite "so sorry madam" certainly not local farmers/country people.

I'm now a one woman anti and have purchased a beautiful antique hunting horn on eBay. Cannot currently extract anything like the correct noises from it so may need to repurchase or YouTube.

Certainly if they invade again I shall try and divert.
Making my own entertainment but yes poor foxes.

I'm horsey, and I don't agree with hunting, I think it's outdated and should be policed better, and as part of the horse world who isn't posh and works and goes without to keep an animal I love, it fucks me right off that I get tarred with the same brush just because I have a horse. A lot of the hunting fraternity are well off, but a lot are not and I do think a lot of the time it's more a class thing rather than an animal welfare thing. But then some of the hunting fraternity can be complete arseholes about it as much as sabatuers.
Also don't agree with someone dragging someone from a horse. I've seen videos of how some sabs behave and as far as I'm concerned as soon as they start dragging horses round by the reins, hurting their mouths and confusing them, pushing people off and potentially hurting back muscles etc they lose any moral high ground for 'protecting' a poor defenceless animal. It's not ok to hurt one animal on purpose in the 'protection' of another. And that's discarding the human element.
I would lash out at someone who started dragging my horse around by the reins because they'd hurt and upset her, if they continued when asked to stop.
How can you profess to be doing something to protect one animal, and be an animal lover while wilfully abusing another?
I realise not all sabs do this, same as not all hunts stick to the rules, but it does seem hypocritical to deliberately hurt and distress horses and hounds to protect a poor defenceless fox. Horses and hounds have no more choice in it than the fox do they.