Hunting without the actual fox

[itsbritneybiatches]

This is just caused a bit of a row in our house.

Family member comes into the room where I am and says how disgustingly it is that the supporters were kicking off and a 15'year old was pushed off a horse.

Now I am very very anti fox hunting and I said I am the last person you want to speak to about this as I do not agree with fox hunting on any level.

They continued about how bad it was that this 15 year old has been pushed from the horse and I responded with a comment along the lines of they shouldn't of Been on the horse to go out and do that kind of thing, no sympathy whatsoever.

Apparently now they don't hunt foxes. Just pre laid trails.

So if a fox is then smelt on the way of the pre laid trails, willl the hounds hunt that or the pre laid trail?

I just can't get my head round a sport that is to chase an animal, to its death. The torment that animal Must go through in the name of sport it just disgusts me. Who could actually enjoy that.

Most animals living in the wild will have a violent or prolonged death, eaten as prey, starve to death, roadkill.

It still doesn’t make it okay to hunt them for fun.

Just out of interest, why do the sabs not follow on their own horses?

nico Can't you try to imagine what any animal has to endure whilst on the slaughter line? Sheer terror, I promise you. They know they are going to die. Pigs are the 5th most intelligent animal. They know. Land of Hope and Glory is a UK based documentary that is very informative.

Most animals that go to slaughter will have never spent a day outside a cage or a barn. It could be argued that at least a fox had a life of freedom before its death? Unlike the billions caged in this country,here,now.

We show compassion for one animal yet shit another out of our arses?

Not catch and kill a horse catch and kill a fox ...

Admittedly I am pro fox hunting with dogs and regularly shoot them myself, but I can’t see how anyone can defend such dangerous behaviour whatever their thoughts on the entirely lawful behaviour the rider was engaging in.

I have a friend who’s ridden in hunts all her life. She laughs about a neighbouring hunt who kill so many foxes that it’s only a matter of time before they’re prosecuted. They don’t care. Too many friends in high places with deep pockets.

@Asdf12345

Genuine question, what are
You actually pro fox hunting about? What part of it do you agree with?

And I wonder how many people mortified at a fox being chased and killed (or quite feasibly chased and not caught) accept a rat being poisoned (and suffer a long painful death)?

Why are so many of you adamant that foxes are killed on a hunt? It's against the law. A crime has been committed. Please report! ... Unless it's the internet talking....

Just town v country, I think.

This is absolute bollocks and has been ever since the "Countryside Alliance" started peddling it in the 90s. The implication that we're all standing by doffing our caps as they go about doing whatever the hell they like is grossly offensive.

Obviously it is not ok that a child was pulled from her horse, if it happened, and I hope she's not injured. But everyone knows full well that some hunts are still actually hunting, because rural police will turn a blind eye, so it is not outrageous that some people more committed than me are out trying to get in their way.

And I wonder how many people mortified at a fox being chased and killed (or quite feasibly chased and not caught) accept a rat being poisoned (and suffer a long painful death)?

For me it's the mentality of anyone who enjoys chasing and killing things and considers it a sport.

There's nothing enjoyable or sporting about causing suffering to anyone or anything.

In fact I'd sleep with one eye open if I was married to someone like that.

It's no different to kicking a puppy to death. Can you imagine the outcry if someone admitted to enjoying that on Mumsnet?

But it's a bit different isn't it? Rats spread disease that are spread directly
To humans.

I'm not aware of people poisoning rats that gathering in groups to watch them die painfully. It's not a sport is it.

Where as foxes don't spread diseases
To humans, they avoid us. Yet groups gather to chase them, terrify them and watch them being ripped apart for fun.

Well I wouldn't poison a rat either. Like you say it would be a lingering death plus potentially dangerous to local cats, etc. I had a mouse in the house once and set a humane trap. Dunno if that's feasible for rats?

I do eat meat, not often as dh and dd are vegan so I don't buy it myself but will eat meat at restaurants, etc. Maybe I'm wrong but I do like to think that 99% of the time they will at least be killed humanely.

I live in the country, pigs I see are all outside in the fields, ditto cows and sheep.

I keep my own chickens for eggs so I know my eggs are as ethical as can be. Two of my chickens are 8yo and haven't laid an egg in years but are allowed to potter round the massive garden still.

But I do think that the argument about fox hunting is separate to that of being a vegan or not. I hate it when people try to shut down an argument with "oh what do you care about foxes if you eat meat". It's pointless.

NicoAndTheNiners "Most cows I see look fairly happy, in the fields eating grass. Being pregnant is a natural state for them and is what happens in the wild to most animals. Animals like cattle don't know they're destined for the abattoir. So no fear there. Unlike the fox whom is bloody terrified."

Driving to the abbatior (which can take many, many hours) has been shown to be very stressful to the animals - who have raised cortisol levels which in turn affects the quality of the meat.

I don't want to go on a rant about unhappy animals, but there has been quite a bit of research showing that generally animals are happiest engaging in their natural behaviours and factory farming prevents this a lot of the time (e.g. taking calves away from cows straight after birth so we can drink the milk, chickens having to stand stand knee deep in their own sh*t (you can see the scars on their legs when you buy chicken) or pecking each other to death, or having their legs break at 3 weeks old because they are bred to put on weight so quickly that their legs can't sustain them.

I'm not an activist (or even a full on vegan - although I try), just always feel we tend to be hyper-aware of the suffering of some animals but not others and I don't really understand why.

I love mumsnet.

In this thread: 15 years old? Still so tiny, not long since she was a baby!

In literally every other thread: 15 years old? Why isn't he mending his own clothes and cooking for the entire family every other night? Did you mean to raise an entitled man-child, OP?

@sinuhe if you search on YouTube you'll find plenty of videos of foxes being killed by hunts. Hunts have been prosecuted but sadly it doesn't happen often. One uk hunt has the chief constable hunting with them! I imagine a lot of them are friendly with local magistrates, etc. Police seem disinterested in it.

Getting evidence is hard because normally the hunt are some distance away so blurry, distance videos are said to be insufficient evidence. The quad bike guys turn up to get rid of any fox bodies quickly so no evidence. And hunt supporters sometimes smash cameras/phones when footage has been got. But like I said there are some videos in YouTube.

Here's one for you.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=b_hyX8z-DoU

I’m also curious as to how people can be so sure they still hunt with a fox? We live in a very rural area and I know people that hunt and I would strongly suspect that they don’t give a stuff about the law, mainly because there is absolutely no one to oversee what they do and you would struggle to get a response out of our local police for a violent crime committed against humans, yet alone a fox. However that is total speculation on my part. Do animal activists have spies that infiltrate?
Foxes are a total menace though, so it’s not surprising farmers and country types want to kill them. I know a farmer who lost 700 chickens in one night thanks to a fox rampage. Of course hunts are a very ‘inhumane’ way to kill, however I think anyone who says they are against hunting but still east meat is a bit of a hypocrite. It’s all pretty cruel stuff.

Barbaric ritual gaining any sort of fun from killing something. If it were not about the killing then why not just go horse riding?

Another video of a huntsman riding his horse at a hunt monitor/sab who is doing bugger all apart from standing on a footpath videoing. Not only are they illegally riding horses on a footpath but they ride horses at people, then ring the police and tell the police the sabs have smashed a gate (it's not smashed) that they've been thumped (they haven't) and accuse the sab filing of being a paedophile because one of the riders who is on film is a child. Sabs are nice and polite.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=QSLs7nn4ylc

And that last video they're blatantly fox hunting not trail hunting otherwise there wouldn't be so much hanging around, nor would they be on footpaths,

Another video of hounds blatantly killing a fox.

Please can someone who participates in “hunts that don’t hunt foxes” explain how that works exactly? Why does anyone need to go out with a group of other people on horseback with dogs and hunt anything?

Well exactly.....if they just wanted to go for a ride they could do that without the hounds.

"Yes I eat meat but I don't think the beef I eat has ever been chased across the countryside for an hour or more in terror, before being dug out a hole and then ripped limb from limb. The moment abattoirs start killing pigs/cattle/sheep in that manner I promise I will go vegan."

So its less horrific to torture an animal every day of their lives before they are slaughtered just so you can have that Bisto moment. People are hypocrites and dont actually give a shit where their food comes from.

Has anyone actually seen the destruction a fox leaves after visiting a hen house?