DP won't marry. Is it me or is it him?

[Teeandee]

DP and i have been together a few years, one child and a second on the way.

We'd spoken about marriage after being together for about 12 months and we were getting serious. I was lead to believe it was on the cards and was something he wanted too, so I had no concerns about starting a family about a year later. He's a good provider, supportive and a good father.

He's been engaged twice before but never made it up the isle. His first engagement was in his very early twenties but she left him for somebody else.

His second engagement was to an ex he was with for six years and has a child to, who he later told me he'd only proposed to because her family were putting on the pressure to "make an honest woman out of her" so he did it to make her and them happy. They eventually broke up but he continues to pay child maintenance and sees his DD regularly so he hasn't been evading his responsibilities.

He's not a serial romancer and has only had three significant relationships in his adult life, the two I've mentioned then me.

With our DC2 on the way I began to press the subject of marriage and he now tells me he really doesn't want to get married, never has, and that it's not "me" he doesn't want to marry, it's anybody.

This is when he tells me about his heart not being in it when he proposed to his ex, and says he doesn't think he'd have gone through with a wedding because it's not something he ever wanted, but felt pushed into by her and her parents.

I'm understandably upset because I was lead to believe it was something he wanted, only to be told it's definitely not.

What's going on here, is it me or is it him? Is he spinning me a line about not wanting to marry 'anyone'

FTR I'm not remotely concerned about being left in the lurch with DC and no support, house is in my name and I have my own money. I can see he's somebody who provides for his DC regardless of whether he's with the mum. It was about love for me and not money

@YoungLennyGodber

Staying together for the sake of the children is widely held to be a bad idea.

@YoungLennyGodber kids cope fine with seperated parents, step parents etc. Why is all the blame being put on me (in this hypothetical situation!) and not on the man for refusing to marry the mother of his child?

@SignOnTheWindow

I'm so sorry for your loss.

What Zacharyquacks says at 2110 is spot on!

"if that partner is the mother of your children - you don't love them." Exactly!

This thread prompted me to consider my own circle, most of my friends & relatives are on FB so scrolled through my friends list, almost all those who are in ltr are married! I wonder if that is because I (and they) are mostly older (40's plus) as about 1/3 of them cohabited initially.

Most of the heterosexual ones married before ttc, or even did "shotgun" weddings. The same sex couples if they have children they're either from previous straight relationships or they had (donor Ivf) or adopted the children before they met their current partner/spouse.

I wonder if it's because of the ramifications of the partner dying rather than separation issues.

There's a certain number of us saw the problems a relative had when their partner died suddenly and as a result they and their young DC lost their home and were plunged into dire straits financially.

Perhaps also we were the tail end of generations that marriage was still expected, considered "correct" especially if you were going to have DC.

I remember when co-habiting started to become more common, more accepted and it was initially seen as "empowering" for women, seems now 20/30 years later we're seeing that actually it leaves women up shit creek often.

I agree leaving it to after children born to make it a "deal breaker" isn't ok either.

Kids don’t do as well, generally speaking, and the data on that is clear. I would blame the mother and father equally - because they should both have committed to a stable, lasting relationship before bringing a child into the world. I’m so tired of women doing this to themselves and then complaining that it’s the mans fault. He is at fault, for sure - but the woman who’s had one, two children and then wonders why he won’t marry her aren’t victims - they’ve done it to themselves. And the ones that suffer then are the children.

The woman who’s had one, two children and then wonders why he won’t marry her aren’t victims - they’ve done it to themselves

To think, I always thought the menfolk were required to make babies. He was as responsible for making those kids as she is. And worse, it sounds like he actively lied to her in the beginning of the relationship because he thought she would leave if he told the truth. He is thus the cause of the resulting instability. I think he's fairly conclusively more to blame in this case.

@Festivenut thank you, that means a lot.

We thought we were romantic and bohemian, but were actually just naive. Luckily I had support from both our families, and DP worked for an employer that paid out pension and death in service benefits to unmarried partners, so the DC and I managed financially.

@YoungLennyGodber i did more than fine with seperated parents. A childs family is so much more than just parents. I never said i was a victim.

And this is all hypothetical as like i said, i have no reason to doubt my dp will propose, i've only really been 'waiting' for around 6 months.
All i said was that IF he said he didn't want marriage then i would be gone. He's known this since day 1.

actively lied to her in the beginning of the relationship because he thought she would leave if he told the truth.

None of this would even be an issue if women refused to have children with a man who won’t commit. Don’t just listen to his words. If you want to be married and there’s no sign of a proposal and he strings you along saying it’ll happen in the future - leave. Words mean nothing. Getting married does.

He did outright lie to me about his intentions but the fact I proceeded to have children without a wedding first is on me, yes. I don't appreciate the fact he lied though. I'd have taken no offence at him telling me he didn't want to marry me when we had the discussion after being together for a year. I'd have respected his honesty and then could've decided if I wanted to proceed or not. I don't think it's ok to knowingly deceive somebody only to then come clean years down the line, if he had absolutely no intention to marry all along.

I did approach the subject from both angles when I last spoke with him about it, when he gave his account on not needing a piece of paper to prove our love I moved onto the financial and practical side of things. I don't actually remember what he said very clearly, but I did mention getting legal contracts drawn up if he was absolutely certain he wouldn't get married. I need to bring this up again because the subject was all but forgotten after a couple of days because quite frankly I felt like a fool and buried it back under the carpet.

We've been getting along just fine and I think it's the festivities that have brought this back to the front of my mind as we've been so happy lately.

He's not ridiculously wealthy so it's not as though he has a ton of assets that he'd want to protect in the event of a split. I also don't buy into or understand the 'marriage is just a piece of paper' argument because like others have pointed out, if he really felt that way then why would it be such a big deal and why would he go out of his way to avoid it.. Unless he specifically didn't want to legally commit to me personally.

The fact he doesn't see himself sticking around long term is the only thing that makes any sense to me in terms of explaining his resistance, but of course he denies that completely.

This sounds like a deal breaker, the lying alone is awful.

There are a lot of men out there who used the "I never want to get married to anyone." line who later got married.

The fact he doesn't see himself sticking around long term is the only thing that makes any sense to me in terms of explaining his resistance, but of course he denies that completely.

And of course you can't believe him because he's already got form as a liar

Hugs to you

house is in my name and I have my own money.

Well, thank fuck for that.

As a single mum in the same situation as above, fuck those men who charm you but never tell the truth.

To be frank I think he should have been greatful anybody wanted to marry him in the first place because he has the smelliest feet I've ever encountered in human form.
I'm quite insulted

I know It's a bit morbid, but start reading up about what your rights and entitlements are if one of you dies. One of my parents suddenly died when I was young, and being my parents married made things a lot easier financially. As did them having life insurance. I have always been adamant that I wouldn't have a baby before I was married, and both of us had life insurance, for that reason. Not very romantic!

Him saying it's "just a piece of paper" is bullshit. It's a piece of paper that could protect you and your children if the worse happened.

@SignOnTheWindow

How heartbreaking that you weren't able to name him on your DC's birth certificate,
I'm truly sorry for your loss

Am taking on all the advice given about legal protection, thank you all for the input it's much appreciated

I don't think it's ok to knowingly deceive somebody only to then come clean years down the line, if he had absolutely no intention to marry all along.

Neither do I. It’s not ok to lie about these things, of course not. I’m not being mean for the sake of it, but a woman should insist on marriage first, if that’s what she wants, and leave if no proposal is forthcoming. A man shouldn’t lie about it, but a woman has to take responsibility for herself too. Don’t allow yourself to be lied to. If he’s still making excuses after a year, two years, three years - leave. Don’t stick around and have children with him and see if he changes his mind. Leave.

Yes, do fully investigate the legal position and seek a cohabitation agreement. This will probably cost more than marriage.

Also, don’t make any more compromises in your working life than he does.

Turn it back. He says he doesn't doubt the longevity of the relationship and doesn't need marriage. Tell him you do. Tell him you feel tricked and led on. That you have always wanted to be married. That if he is unwilling to do that, he needs to move out. He can still see the kids and you can sort out some sort of arrangement like he has with his oldest child, but that if marriage is off the cards then - despite loving him - the relationship has come to its natural conclusion.

It will be hard. But you must follow through.

He will then either 1) change his mind or 2) not.

None of this would even be an issue if women refused to have children with a man who won’t commit. Don’t just listen to his words. If you want to be married and there’s no sign of a proposal and he strings you along saying it’ll happen in the future - leave. Words mean nothing. Getting married does.

Precisely. Anyone can say they want to get married one day. If you want marriage then bloody well insist on it before you have children! Don't wait for a romantic surprise proposal - be practical and talk about it and insist it happens and if it doesn't, then leave and find someone else.

Don't allow yourself to be strung along by someone else's words and don't settle for someone who might marry you "one day".

It sounds like what his dad has said to him about his partnership (as well as his parents disaterous marriage) has had undue influence.

But his dad's partnership is totally different to yours - it's post children in later life. In his shoes I wouldn't get married either (I'm independently reasonably wealthy and I want to ensure my dc inherit my estate not any subsequent partner if I was divorced /widowed).

But you're building a life together at a completely different stage of life. Regardless of the money and house you have got you're still inherently vulnerable - you've had time off work to care for his offspring, you're likely to have lost earning power through having small children.

You must confront this in the NY and just keep your line that he said he would marry you and you never would have progressed if you knew he was not intending on marrying you.

If it were me I'd make it clear that this nice set up he's got ends if you don't get married. For me it would be a deal breaker and I would split up with someone over this, as despite the nice baths and cups of tea he's not willing to actually protect your interests long term.

Pp have already mentioned all the legal implications - you will not inherit his estate if he dies, even if he leaves his estate to you you will pay inheritance tax (if applicable, it may not be now but may well be in the future especially with fiscal drag), you are not either of your next of kin, if you split up he might (not guaranteed) still pay for your kids but he doesn't have to support you (even whilst you are left to care for his children).

Can you really afford to not get married?

My advice if he won't marry you is to split up and find someone who actually does want to marry you.

Yes, do ensure the legal discussion is had. Once Christmas is done and dusted, make sure you raise it. And worth mentioning civil partnership as well, see what he has to say about that.

Also I asked before but don't think you replied, or I didn't see it if you did, is the house in your sole name or joint names?

If he's hospitalised (God forbid) you won't be able to get much if any information as you won't be next of kin Just pointing out "next of kin" has NO LEGAL UK DEFINITION! If the OPs partner has her down as the emergency contact she will be contacted and given information. It's standard to be asked on GP forms and A&E visits. The only time next of kin comes into play is when someone is dead. He can make a will so that the OP and the children get a share however he sees fit as can the OP.

@SignontheWindow Can you say what else was difficult in your situation please?