DP won't marry. Is it me or is it him?

[Teeandee]

DP and i have been together a few years, one child and a second on the way.

We'd spoken about marriage after being together for about 12 months and we were getting serious. I was lead to believe it was on the cards and was something he wanted too, so I had no concerns about starting a family about a year later. He's a good provider, supportive and a good father.

He's been engaged twice before but never made it up the isle. His first engagement was in his very early twenties but she left him for somebody else.

His second engagement was to an ex he was with for six years and has a child to, who he later told me he'd only proposed to because her family were putting on the pressure to "make an honest woman out of her" so he did it to make her and them happy. They eventually broke up but he continues to pay child maintenance and sees his DD regularly so he hasn't been evading his responsibilities.

He's not a serial romancer and has only had three significant relationships in his adult life, the two I've mentioned then me.

With our DC2 on the way I began to press the subject of marriage and he now tells me he really doesn't want to get married, never has, and that it's not "me" he doesn't want to marry, it's anybody.

This is when he tells me about his heart not being in it when he proposed to his ex, and says he doesn't think he'd have gone through with a wedding because it's not something he ever wanted, but felt pushed into by her and her parents.

I'm understandably upset because I was lead to believe it was something he wanted, only to be told it's definitely not.

What's going on here, is it me or is it him? Is he spinning me a line about not wanting to marry 'anyone'

FTR I'm not remotely concerned about being left in the lurch with DC and no support, house is in my name and I have my own money. I can see he's somebody who provides for his DC regardless of whether he's with the mum. It was about love for me and not money

Reread the OPs first post, especially the second paragraph. She says (sorry don’t know how to quote) I was led to believe it was on the cards and something he wanted too and so I had no concerns in having a child for that reason.

How is that not misleading????

Why did you have a child before getting married if marriage was so important to you?

Why would he need to marry you? He has domestic arrangements with you and the dc.

You though are left in a big predicament if things go up the swanny- but then that’s not a problem to him

Inevitably on these threads is the lone poster who insists lack of marriage is not lack of commitment.

Just ain't true. A few unmarried couples stay together after kids, particularly if they're well off. Most unmarried couples with kids split.

Over 3/4 of families with no marriage break up before the kids are 5.

OP, don't give the kids his name and don't give up work. Plan for your real future - the one without him. Whether you want him around now as an optional extra is up to you.

Can I ask - what is he like as a partner and father?

Is he kind, considerate, supportive and shares the domestic load? Is he keen to make you feel loved, respected, wanted, needed? Does he make you feel secure, really and truly as things stand?

How is he with his previous child? What are the acces arrangements? Is he on good terms (now) with his X? Does he play as near an equal part as poss in that kid’s life? What is he like with your DC1? Invested? Loving? Proud and present?

Before I leap in with both feet the answer to these questions is important just to see how “critical” a state you’re in and basically IYABU.

Id challenge ‘legally financially responsible for the children’! Hardly from what I read. But does he do 50% of care and of housework , and don’t forget life admin? If not he had better start, otherwise you are sacrificing career and fun to carry his share of the domestic load without security.

If it's just a piece of paper, where is the harm in having it?

This is my sticking point. If it doesn't mean anything to him, and it does mean something to the OP, why not get it? If he loves her, why doesn't he want her to have the legal protection marriage provides?

"Unfortunately it’s still true that women have a sell by date which men don’t. "

Ooh shit, can someone let me know my sell by date please? I can't find where it's stamped on my wrinkly old bod. Perhaps I've past it without realising and I'm now "yesterday's jam" already.

The OP wasn’t misled. She’s not a victim. She could have insisted on marriage first if it meant so much to her, but she didn’t.

How is that not misleading???? @Rainbowqueeen

Because he didn't propose to her or marry her! She had children with him assuming marriage would follow. How was she misled? She wasn't married and chose to get pregnant and have a child anyway. That was her choice - she knew the risks.

Does he pay decent maintenance for his DC1 and how many nights a fortnight does he have them?

Is he the higher earner with more financial assets?

If you suggested a legal cohabitation agreement, including split of assets in the event of a breakup, what do you think his reaction would be?

Are you planning to be a SAHP with your children?

I know you say the house is yours but 2 children will have impacted your career.

Ask him if he’s willing to give up his job and be a SAHP. He’ll have fuck all if he does and then you leave him.

He pays over the requirements in maintenance, treats his ex with respect and is very present in his daughters life.

At home he's good. He does his share of childcare when he's home from work, he does %50 of the cooking, he's just given us a wonderful Christmas and did absolutely everything himself so I didn't need to lift a finger (struggling with SPD second baby in a row)

He runs candlelit baths for me, makes me cups of tea every morning, calls me on his breaks at work and sends sweet messages. He makes an effort with my DM who has been nothing short of very hard work. He's considerate, conscientious and kind about my anxiety disorder which must bore the shit out of him at times.

I do equally as much for him as he does me, but we're very much a partnership in all senses other than on paper. He really is quite lovely in general otherwise I wouldn't have wanted to marry him in the first place.

Sigh 🙄

Another one. These threads occur with worrying regularity.

"I was lead to believe it was on the cards and was something he wanted too, so I had no concerns about starting a family about a year later." Words are cheap actions are what matter.

"He's been engaged twice before" red flag right there!

You say he pays maintenance - completely voluntarily or did she have to make him? More than cms minimum? 50% of child's costs?

"He's not a serial romancer" yes he is - and a serial impregnator!

"Is he spinning me a line about not wanting to marry 'anyone'" entirely possible. How old is he?

Re the practical considerations of marriage, especially where there's children involved a separation is what most people think about, but (as I've said several times before on these boards) it's not just separations to consider, there's critical illness and death too - his or yours. You say you have your own money - but is that due to a job? Because if so its not enough security, you never know what's round the corner. You could become sick or disabled and then where would you be?

Even in the case of separation is it a job you can do as a single mum?

And even aside from all that - he LIED to you. Not only does he not love you enough to marry you, he doesn't even love or respect you enough to be honest with you!

I'm divorced, but having been married made certain things when we split so much easier. I too was clear that I wanted marriage then kids and before I was 30 too in my case.

If such things are important to you (and I think they are for many legal and financial reasons) then you have to act accordingly.

All the suggestions from pps Re wills etc are good but there's no way to fully legally and financially replicate the rights gained by marriage.

The "just a piece of paper" bollocks doesn't wash with me either - if they really thought that they wouldn't be so resistant!

He's not even considered your feelings in all this.

How long have you been together, how long was he with the exes he was engaged to? Why did they split? Do you have only his word for that? It seems you only have his word that he was pressured to get engaged.

It sounds like his "reasons" are only just being told to you now too - which is bloody convenient - what was the narrative when he was claiming he did want to marry? Because it sounds like his parents situation was no different then!

"If I had a penny for all the times I have heard of "marriage is not for me, I don't need a piece of paper" from someone and then they split up and he gets married within the year to someone else..." Yep!

You need to be more assertive and less passive - look where your passivity has got you so far?

Just as long as you are getting your pension topped up as much as his if you take time off to raise the kids, and paperwork is done ...

Ask him to marry you then. See what he says.

You sound like you are in a similar position to a friend of mine OP who after a litany of shit relationships has finally found a “good one”. And he is, he really loves her and they want to have a family together. But he seems to have no intention to marry and she is likely to have to get on board with that as to be frank at 38 and with undoubtedly far and away the BEST guy (and he is) it would be pretty heartbreaking if insistence on marriage were to break them apart.

I know your situation is different (and he was definitely economical with the truth before) you sound like a good team. Why push the issue if you have what seems to be (and you seem to paint him as such) a decent bloke?

I do get where you are coming from, I do but if it really is as fair, equal and loving as you say then just get your legal ducks in a row and don’t push the issue anymore.

He pays his maintenance directly to his ex and pays more than what CMS would have asked of him. It's a private arrangement that they're both happy with.

He's not a bad father or a bad person, but I think it's absolutely wrong of him not to have laid his cards down on the table to begin with. We had a discussion about the future and both said we'd like to marry eventually. I was naive not to press the matter before having children but took him at face value when he said at the 12 month mark that it was something he'd like. I wasn't in a rush to get married so didn't bring it up again, telling myself it would happen when it happened.

Obviously I don't regret the DC but think I'd have felt differently about having them early on if he'd have been honest about his intentions toward marriage.

Then stay with him, but he's told you he doesn't want to get married. It doesn't matter now, you went ahead and had two kids with him. Horse.stable.bolted. Carry on as you are making sure you never compromise yourself financially or give the kids his surname.

Tbh I can’t understNd a parent that won’t protect their partner and especially their children with marriage and a will. It’s foolhardy at best and fucking selfish at worst

You can blame him now if it makes you feel better OP, but even you weren’t fussed at the time. You went into this willingly. You might wish you’d done things differently now, but it’s not all his fault.

Is he worried about the actual wedding?
I didn’t want to get married, and told DH this early in the relationship. However, he really wanted to, and proposed and so I agreed to elope, and am now so glad I did.

If he doesn't believe I need it, then what harm does that 'piece of paper' do him?

Marriage would be (was) a dealbreaker for me too. I don't understand why you went ahead and had kids though, especially when you knew he had two failed engagements behind him. Now you're tied to him through the kids when you could have walked away with a clean break otherwise.