DP won't marry. Is it me or is it him?

[Teeandee]

DP and i have been together a few years, one child and a second on the way.

We'd spoken about marriage after being together for about 12 months and we were getting serious. I was lead to believe it was on the cards and was something he wanted too, so I had no concerns about starting a family about a year later. He's a good provider, supportive and a good father.

He's been engaged twice before but never made it up the isle. His first engagement was in his very early twenties but she left him for somebody else.

His second engagement was to an ex he was with for six years and has a child to, who he later told me he'd only proposed to because her family were putting on the pressure to "make an honest woman out of her" so he did it to make her and them happy. They eventually broke up but he continues to pay child maintenance and sees his DD regularly so he hasn't been evading his responsibilities.

He's not a serial romancer and has only had three significant relationships in his adult life, the two I've mentioned then me.

With our DC2 on the way I began to press the subject of marriage and he now tells me he really doesn't want to get married, never has, and that it's not "me" he doesn't want to marry, it's anybody.

This is when he tells me about his heart not being in it when he proposed to his ex, and says he doesn't think he'd have gone through with a wedding because it's not something he ever wanted, but felt pushed into by her and her parents.

I'm understandably upset because I was lead to believe it was something he wanted, only to be told it's definitely not.

What's going on here, is it me or is it him? Is he spinning me a line about not wanting to marry 'anyone'

FTR I'm not remotely concerned about being left in the lurch with DC and no support, house is in my name and I have my own money. I can see he's somebody who provides for his DC regardless of whether he's with the mum. It was about love for me and not money

It's the lack of a piece of paper that's got heterosexual couples bidding for civil partnerships, since some people 'don't believe in marriage'. Don't get comfortable since he won't marry you. Get the legal stuff sorted out.

Marriage (or civil partnership which is more acceptable to some) is not about love but a relationship with the state, which does give certain safeguards for children and financial benefits.
Get him to solicitor to explain the differences in detail, he may find its to hís advantage too. There must be books about benefits of cohabiting v marriage. If all else fails make wills, with legal advice.
He may come round to the idea, you don't have to give him pr to the new baby, that may concentrate his mind. Get him to relate for couple counselling, see if it can be worked through. If not you have to suck it up, but I'd make sure there was something he wanted that I wouldn't give

I was patiently waiting for it to happen naturally and only raised it for a second time because the relationship had progressed significantly and it hadn't been mentioned since the early days.

Stop patiently waiting and do what you can to protect yourself as much as possible as an unmarried partner, because this man has now told you he's not going to marry you.

I have no idea what so many people, usually women, who want marriage (and fair play if you don't) go and do this and then get upset when the guy doesn't propose/get married/etc. I mean, duh!

If you have your own house and independent source of income you are probably financially better off not married especially as he seems to have problems committing so might run off married or not.

He said because I seemed pretty nonchalant about marriage in recent years he didn't think I was too fussed so he felt able to be truthful and say he really didn't want to marry because he didn't think it would hurt me.

Whereas, he was under alot of pressure from his ex and her family for several years so didn't feel able to be upfront when it kept coming up and ended up giving a half hearted proposal just to keep the peace.

He was visibly upset when I reiterated this time that he knew it was something I wanted because I'd made it clear at the start. He thought that because it hadn't come up again since we'd been dating a year that I wasn't bothered. He said he feels terrible for 'crushing my dreams'

I would say it is him not you. I am a person that doesn't want to get married and it is nothing to do with the person I am with. Been with him over 20yrs and very happy.

I do read on here though a lot of females in your situation that have a great urge to get engaged/married and so can totally see why he might have felt slightly pressured into it with his ex.

I only ever saw myself having a family to somebody I'd be married to and had he not reassured me in advance that we were on the same page about marriage I'd have waited before having children.

I know people say not to have DC before marriage if you have any sense but I had no doubts about him as a life partner and father, reiterated by the fact he said he would like to get married.

I'm really sorry OP but you made the choice to have children with someone you weren't married to, even though you knew his history of getting engaged and not going through with it. Now you're dealing with the consequences of that choice.

I think you need to accept he doesn't want to get married. You now need whether you're willing to throw away your relationship over it.

Did you post this on another thread fairly recently? It sounds really familiar.

I only ever saw myself having a family to somebody I'd be married to and had he not reassured me in advance that we were on the same page about marriage I'd have waited before having children.

I know you don’t have a time machine OP, but reassurances and words mean nothing. He needed to actually marry you. He has no incentive to marry you now - he has everything he wants.

Women have given up on the idea of marriage far too easily. It’s a good thing for women and children, for families. Fair play if you don’t want it, but if you do want marriage and children, get married first. People always say that children are a bigger commitment than marriage - it’s just not true. Look at all the fathers who ask away from their responsibilities. And women allow it because they don’t insist that marriage and commitment comes first.

He said because I seemed pretty nonchalant about marriage in recent years he didn't think I was too fussed so he felt able to be truthful and say he really didn't want to marry because he didn't think it would hurt me.

And by having two kids with him, I'd think the same thing. At any rate, he's told you the truth now. You didn't insist on it, still didn't, so he assumed, with one child and another on the way, that you didn't care too much either way.

How do you know that he really was pressured into both engagements? I mean, he seems to have no trouble lying to his significant others.

Did you post this on another thread fairly recently? It sounds really familiar.

There's one of these on here at least every week, possibly more, always the same - kid, pregnant or kids and pregnant - wanted to get married but didn't do it before kids. Thankfully this OP hasn't gone and moved into 'his' house that it's in his name only, given the kids his surname and/or given up her career and earning potential to be a SAHP or part-time employee.

My DD is 19 and engaged. And the marriage is next April, none of this 'forever engaged' bunkum that often gets done, too. They both wanted marriage, so they're getting married. You don't need a load of money or this big wedding. They are paying for most of it themselves, we're giving them £2000, and it's costing about £6k all in. When people want to get married, they go and do it.

I've not posted about this recently no.

I don't think he felt pressurised into his first engagement at all, I think he was very young and in love so wanted it himself at the time. He hasn't tried to tell me otherwise.

I do think he felt pressurised into the second one, though.

If he’d loved them enough to marry them, he would have done.

It’s not to prove love, for me it’s about legal standing - inheritance tax, pensions, next of kin rights. I’d insist just on a town hall wedding in your jeans for £50, to protect you both.

I do think he would have married the first one at the time. He was very young though, just into his 20s and she was his first proper relationship.

Has he made a will, named you as the beneficiary of his company persion and investigated how else to give you security similar to marriage?

This is, it's by the by. He's now got 3 kids, well 2 and 1 on the way, and hasn't married either of the mothers and says he won't. That's where you stand now with him, damage control. You need to decide if this is a dealbreaker and if it's not then making peace with the fact that marriage isn't on the cards.

I would be deeply unhappy.

In the UK, if you're not married/in a civil partnership, you are not legally protected if you split up. Yes, your DC will be entitled to support, but you are not. You won't be entitled to anything but what you own, regardless of whether you and the children would end up in dire circumstances.

That's concerning, because in the UK, women are more likely to take a step back in their careers to handle the bulk of the childcare: maternity leave, appointments, sick days, childcare payments, childcare pick up and drop offs, school pick ups and drop offs, arranging to pay for school trips, school uniforms, shoes, every day clothes, all the 'extras', clubs, etc. In most families i know, it's the women who arrange for and deal with most of this, and pay for it.

I would be concerned if you were planning to take time off, take a step back, go part time while not having the security of a 'legal' relationship (marriage or civil partnership) so you're protected, too, if the relationship goes belly up.

And if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow, his assets don't pass to you free of estate tax because you're not his wife.

If he won't marry you to protect you, what will he do? Ask him how he will ensure you are protected to, as the mother of his children, if someday he wakes up and decides he doesn't want to be there any more? How can you trust him to do right by you if things have changed and he no longer wants to be with you? Will he give you a set amount of money every month now to tuck away into an account in your name only? Will he sign a legal document entitling you to a percentage of his pension, no matter what? What will he do?

I would be unhappy, too, OP, but then I wouldn't have stayed with someone and had children with them unless I knew we were all protected and secure. You need to sort that with him now. In some countries, it doesn't really matter, but in the UK, it does.

my Issue would be that he appears to have misled you. If he really felt this way then it should have been clear from the start of your relationship. It doesn’t appear that it was. Why is that???

In your shoes I would get advice about inheritance laws etc and make all my financial decisions based on that. For example it may be too financially risky for you to buy any joint property because of the tax you would have to pay if one of you died would mean you would need to sell the property to pay it.

I would also take some time to think about if there are other issues surrounding honesty and what I wanted for my life. Sorry OP

If it's just a piece of paper, where is the harm in having it?
Does he not want the wedding? Could you not just go to the registry office?

If you died your next of kin could sell the house and he’d get nothing. He couldn’t decide on your funeral for example.

He couldn’t agree to medical treatment if necessary.

He has no rights as you aren’t married.

You need to look up the rights and tax liabilities etc - you’re on a stick wicket

I haven't seen reference to his age scanning through but if he's in his 30s & you split, I wouldn't be surprised if you suddenly find he has married in his 40s. Sadly, your bargaining chip was children but you've already given him them. There's no incentive for him to marry now. I'm sorry you were duped. This is why I firmly believe in marriage before children.

And how is that better for the children, @Augusta2012?

Because they’d probably benefit from a mother in a relationship where she was loved and valued rather than tolerated?

They already have one parent who clearly isn’t prepared to commit themselves to being part of this family forever. Why should their mother commit emotional harakiri and just hang around until he is ready to drop her?

The OP isn’t just a mother, she’s a woman with the rest of her life in front of her. She is not the one denying her children a home with two committed parents. Her DP is doing that, because he’s got an eye on the get out and protecting his finances and treats the relationship as a temporary thing.

I think in these circumstances you’d have to be a mug to believe he’d always felt that way and that he intended to stick around.

Unfortunately it’s still true that women have a sell by date which men don’t. I wouldn’t say this if I didn’t know people who immensely regretted throwing away most of their best years on someone who in retrospect didn’t care.

I’ve seen this exact scenario a few times and it’s hardly ever true that they don’t want to marry anybody. In fact usually it tends to follow the pattern of leaving the long term cohabiting partner for someone new and being married with six months.

my Issue would be that he appears to have misled you. If he really felt this way then it should have been clear from the start of your relationship.

How has he he misled her? It's not like they're engaged and he's stalling - they're two adults in a committed relationship. They've both made the decision to have children together and now she's upset because they're not married and likely will never be.

He never made her have children outside of marriage - presumably she chose that path just as much as he did. Only he's quite happy to never get married, whereas OP always wanted marriage and children with the same person. If it was so important, she should never have had children with him outside of marriage.

However she's now in a situation of her own making that she doesn't like. Ultimately she needs to decide whether marriage is a dealbreaker or not.