to say that female on male violence is unacceptable too...

[matthayes76]

Hey,

Hoping some of you guys can shed some light on whether I’m being the monster my partner suggests I am.

We were having a chat and it came out that a woman we know has been punching her husband during arguments.

I was pretty shocked and saddened but my partner dismissed it as not being as bad as if it was the other way round.

That attitude really blew me away.

As far as I’m concerned the violent impulse to hurt and cause physical pain during an argument can never be accepted. Irrespective of the size or sex of the person, we need to use reason and discussion to resolve our differences rather than resorting to violence and intimidation.

Am I being unreasonable?

Would really appreciate some feedback 👍🏻

😬

OP is he just being punched?

When I was in my 20s I knew two men in domestic violence situations. They were both over 6ft and the women, their gf, was under 5ft 4. In each case the men intially claimed their gf just punched them. When they were talked to properly by a close male friend it came out that the gf was hitting them with everyday objects that could cause significant injuries. In one case the gf also was cheating on the guy. Like the women I knew who were subject to DV they refused to leave as they had no self-esteem even though they were in a supportive environment.

Since then I know more cases of DV where both men and women are victims.

Violence in general does not serve women well which is why they generally control it or suppress it. That's not to say there aren't some very violent women out there but I know if it's me versus a big bloke i'm not going to lash out at him for fear of my life. He will have no such concerns.

My DH suffered physical abuse from his exW. She gave him black eyes. Kicked him to the floor while my then 7yo DSS begged her to stop. She's been dragged away in the back of a police van more than once. True she is 5ft nothing and slight, he is bigger and stronger and fully capable of punching back harder, but would he? No, he has no violent impulses while she is literally teaming with them. That's the difference.

Witnessing this had a profound effect on my DSS and he understandably doesn't want her in his life.

TBH it really pisses me off when people on here make fashionable "what about the menzzz" comments, how wonderful for them that they haven't had to deal with what we have.

People are violent, nasty, narcissistic twats, male and female. The physical end result for the victims is where the difference is. But it's unfair to pretend female on male violence doesn't happen when it does.

TBH it really pisses me off when people on here make fashionable "what about the menzzz" comments,

Ffs it's not a fashionable comment. It's recognising that when, mostly male, new posters turn up on a site largely comprising women, to comment on female violence against men, it's NOT because they're concerned or care about men. It's usually done in order to minimise DV against women.

No one says female violence is acceptable. But male violence is a far bigger problem that should NEVER be minimised.

Physical violence is unacceptable - it doesn't matter which sex you are.

I think it doesn't matter how many appalling stories are posted here, male violence on women is different, its gendered in a patriarchal society the women and DC suffer greatly from it. If they escape alive, they are at greater risk.

The secure units are full of women that have suffered dv, and of those in poverty the vast majority are women and their DC.

I think it's extremely goading to ask such a loaded question in the OP.

Because no-one thinks its any more acceptable for women to be violent against men than the other way around. It's a dull question put out there to goad.

I think that if there is a large amount of uncovered female violence going on it is likely against children.

I think that's more likely than a large uncovered amount of female violence going on against men?

I also don't see much effort by men to lobby, research, set up support things etc > although there are a couple of good orgs that were linked upthread.

It often feels like statements around people can be violent, it's not about sex are really aiming to:

• Avoid hurting mens feelings by talking about male violence as a thing
• Minimise the frequency, effect, impact of VAWG

The other point here is that while female on male DV I'm sure happens and is terrible and a crime, the majority of violence against men is committed by other men. In terms of harm reduction, and when considering violenece in society and how to address it, isn't that a pressing concern? Of course there can be more than one focus, but it seems that this is rarely mentioned? Which also makes me wonder whether it's concern for male victims of violence that is at the heart of it. Or is there another reason that other more common forms of violenece against men are not mentioned when violenec against women and girls is mentioned? We are so often attacked by men that we know which is why it is a feminist focus.

A million years ago, when I had a very petite girlfriend, she would sit on my knee, and if she disagreed with me, she would punch me in the chest with her clenched fist.
Our friends (who were present) pretended to be horrified.
I did not care. I loved her very much. It is a personal thing.

Typically, if a female uses violence against a male, they typically use a weapon of some sort.

Also, we all know the stats on victims but what we don't know is the number of perpetrators.

Maybe we need a DV myths campaign as well as a rape myths campaign.

Men report more not less.

There are services for male survivors.

Women are much less likely to assault male partners.

Any others?

Too many 'ifs' 'buts' and 'howevers' on this thread. Some things are absolute.

Some things are absolute.

Completely.

Also, some things have context.

Violence is always wrong. Absolutely. In all cases. DV is very very wrong and being abused by someone close to you is dreadful. I have supported two male survivors and it's a serious issue.

However, male violence against women kills more than 2 women a week. It is used to control all women (don't go out at night, don't dress like that) and it is very common. It is also not funded correctly or policed appropriately. Women's services are being closed and one of the reasons given is that they don't serve men.

How female on male violence is portrayed in the media isn't the fault of women. Hollywood is controlled by men. Underfunding of male services isn't the fault of women. Women are generally the poorly paid workers in those services that do exist. And women are much less likely to be the perpetrators of DV against men than other men are.

So why is it used as a stick to beat us? Why should we solve all of men's problems before our own? Why are we blamed for the portrayal of it? Why are we blamed for other men being horrible to men about being victims.

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/GSH2018/GSH18Gender-relateddkillingoffwomenandd_girls.pdf

Most dangerous place for women worldwide is their own home.

4th post and it was "what about the women".

Why can't there ever be a conversation about female on male violence and the stigmas that abused men suffer without someone (I assume a woman) trying to derail it?

@peakSafeSpace on a scale one to ten, how much do you hate women?

Noones disagreeing with you, however your last post makes no sense whatsoever.

Goady

Why can't there ever be a conversation about female on male violence and the stigmas that abused men suffer without someone (I assume a woman) trying to derail it?

That’s not what this thread is about though, is it? The OP and his DP were having a conversation about which kind of violence is worse - that’s how it differs from the femicide report thread, which was specifically about male on female violence. Poor effort.

@MrsTerryPratcett

One. Why would I hate women? internalised misogyny? Of course I dislike some women. As a class, I don't. I accept I belong to it and frequently feel embarrassed but not much more.

Do you think that talking about male victims of domestic abuse and being annoyed by the same old suspects trying to derail the thread mean I hate women?

I could ask you how much you hate men. I suspect your trite answer would be something along the lines of "I don't hate men, I hate male violence". I guess that my answer would be similar to yours except that you'd think you were witty and clever writing it.

Peaksafespace - if you want to have a conversation about male victims of violence that's great. Many of us have male partners and sons. They are at risk of being victims of violence.

Where does that risk overwhelmingly come from though. I'll give you a clue - it ain't women.

So in a conversation about violence on a largely female website, don't attempt to imply that female violence is a huge issue. Male violence is the far bigger issue, and the conversation needs to look at why, at how society perceived men and women and what can be done to ensure violence is never acceptable or a show of strength, and make it easier for all victims to report and get the help they need. Sort that one out, then you've sorted everything, including the very small number of female perpetrators.

As everyone on MN is very fond of saying:

It is possible to be concerned about more than one thing at a time

You asked specifically whether female on male violence is unacceptable too?

What would you expect?

Yes, all violence is unacceptable, buy the two are clearly very different entities. You don't want to know that you just want to know that people think it's just as wrong, and yes.

I dont see the point in your question unless to raise an issue of male victims?

Male victims have taken services away from women. Male victims have helplines.

Male victims are in a different position to females. That wasn't your question though.

I find it quite abhorrent, all of it, but I want to be very careful not to marginalise or derail the plight of dying women and their DC on here.

So you have your answer, the effect of any violence is awful.

Male and female violence are different.

@easyandy101

Yet that doesn't seem acceptable on threads where it begins with talking about female victims.

If you'll notice, I didn't mention male/female ratios or number of victims or anything like that and the greatest threat to women, depending upon how you look at the numbers, is their lesbian lovers.

All I said was that it would be good if men as victims of abuse could ever be spoken about without threads being taken over and derailed.

I'm glad that this thread's here. I'll link to it a lot to show that 'whataboutery' happens all the time with regard to both sexes.

All I said was that it would be good if men as victims of abuse could ever be spoken about without threads being taken over and derailed.

No you didn't. You wanted to talk about Male victims of FEMALE abuse specifically.

After Caroline Ahearn died, her ex husband (Peter Hook) reported she had been violent during their marriage. While I loved CA this shocked me. However, people who had worked with her, like Ricky Tomlinson, said he was lying because if he was telling the truth, he would have said it before she died. That's what they said about the Jimmy Saville allegations.

I'm not saying whether the allegations are true or not. I don't want them to be, but they maybe-I know in many ways she was a very troubled woman (eg suffered from depression and alcohol misuse. Not saying everyone who is depressed and/or a substance misuser beats their partner, just saying she wasn't the happy chappie her persona suggested.)