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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Putting men before DCs

444 replies

Write · 20/12/2018 11:42

I expect to be flamed but I’m beyond caring at this stage, sorry if that sounds goady!

I know so many women in real life who have jeapordized their children’s quality of life for a new men and sadly I know a few who have endangered their children too. I feel like banging my head against a wall!

A relative of mine has just moved her two DCs away from their schools, family and even got rid of their beloved dog to move halfway across the county with a man who has never worked a day in his life into his tiny filthy flat.
I’ve had friends allow (and be delighted) with brand new boyfriends minding their under 2 year old babies.

I can’t see how these otherwise intelligent women can be so blinded by love!

OP posts:
Hedgehogblues · 20/12/2018 20:52

Adoptive parents and foster carers are VETTED BY THE STATE

And yet some of them are still cruel and abusive

Pinknike · 20/12/2018 20:52

Younglenny that's a very sweeping statement.

Unfortunately life doesn't always go to plan. I'd have loved to have had the ideal family but for one reason and another it all went tits up and I was on my own with a baby very young.

I could have stayed on my own, I'm not sure that would have been automatically better for ds than where we are at now.

Jiminybikkit · 20/12/2018 21:15

I've seen this too.

I know someone who split up with her husband and was pregnant with her new boyfriend's baby within 3 months. Moved him in by 6 months. He was at her 6 and 4 year old's school events and they were encouraged to call him daddy by month 4. Their actual daddy was no better, got a new girlfriend pronto whom he paraded around.

The family had been very, er, Instagramable, for want of a better word. Family with a capital F. Naice solid lifestyle. By the year anniversary of their parent's seperation, they had a new sibling, a new house, a new daddy. Their lives totally dismantled. They look traumatised. Parents are all #livingtheirbestlife so that's OK.

I don't understand it. For the sake of another 12 months of dating, you could make extra sure your prospective partner isn't a twat, then you could begin to introduce him gradually to the children. 18 months of your life, but increased chances of forming a more stable relationship that your kids can get used to without becoming upset or insecure. Win win surely?

Aintnomountain · 20/12/2018 21:41

I can tell you it doesn’t matter if it happens to you as an adult too. My childhood my parents stayed together but they were both disordered as my mother was an alcoholic and my father her enabler. So, in effect any emotional and physical abuse dished out by my mother I was expected to put up with it not to upset her further and to enable my father to have as much as an easy life as he could. I was completely parentified, given the responsibility of their emotional happiness.
This continued until I was 40 when my mother died from alcohol related illness. Hoping for some peace in my life was too much to expect - my father went out and got a GF immediately and moved her into his home within 6 months. I was expected to embrace this and put her on a pedestal like he did - when I declined after she showed her true colours (money grabbing, mouthy bitchy woman) he decided she must come first and I was told I was no longer welcome in his life unless I fully ‘accepted’ her. Never mind she spoke to me like I was dirt - I was to do as I was told.
Well, I wasn’t having round two, coming second best to his feelings again so I took him up on his offer of NC. Some people just think about themselves and no one else.

Andromeida59 · 20/12/2018 22:34

@knittedjest. I absolutely agree with your analysis. I was shocked to recently find out about the number of child deaths at the hands of step-parents/adoptive parents.

My "mother" did this. She moved an asylum seeker in to the house. He was closer in my age to hers. Before moving in, he asked her if he could kiss me. Despite this, she moved both him and his best friend in to the home. Even though he tried to sexually assault my sister and was violent towards her, she kicked my 13 year old sister out rather than him.

explodingkitten · 20/12/2018 22:46

I don't know why people have to move in immediately. One of my friends is an sympathetic and decent man. When he met his GF she had two children and she told him that she wouldn't move in together till the kids left home, which would be at least ten years later. He respected her decision and they dated for 8 years till the kids themselves suggested living together as a family. They're now proud grandparents and they all get along fine.

If you're going to spend your life together you don't have to rush.

ArmySal · 20/12/2018 22:53

I honestly find it pretty chilling someone would move their new boyfriend into their home with their months old baby after only knowing them a short time.

I'd have to know them a fair while if they were going to be living with my dog in case they were mean or uncaring toward it, just can't comprehend it where my children are involved.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 20/12/2018 22:53

The most disgusting thing about all of this is that she barely has the child due to ‘work’

What does ‘work’ mean exactly? Does she work or not?

ohreallyohreallyoh · 20/12/2018 22:57

Statistically speaking, children of single parents do far worse

Really? Last I read was statistically speaking outcomes for children of single parents and children of couples are not that different at all. The biggest factors that impact outcome are supposedly a) mum’s level of education and b) living in poverty. Given the state of child maintenance system, it is a wonder any child living in a single parent household manages to get out of bed in a morning. And yet the majority do. As do the majority of children in 2 parent households.

DioneTheDiabolist · 20/12/2018 23:09

The OP isn't having a go at single mothers who have relationships or step parents.Xmas Hmm She is simply saying that it is important to centre the children, rather than rush into a new family set up because the parent feels in love. Or insecure. It takes time and sensitivity for everyone to get to know and love each other. Done well, it can be wonderful.Xmas Smile

But done badly, the damage done to the children is appalling and, as PP's have said, can take years to heal.Xmas SadFlowers

Bluebellsarebells · 20/12/2018 23:45

I've done it.
I met someone, we both had our kids with us the first time we met.
He moved in 2months later, it was supposed to be temporary, became permanent.
Or not so permanent because he ran off with a 21yo from work 3 years later..
I regret that decision and the fact that I went along with something that was wrong.
Looking back I realise it was crazy.
The relationship ended very abruptly and badly for me..
Not making excuses but he was good to my son, and me really, until the end, we never had a cross word, no arguments, shouting.. I trusted him with my son, and although I could say all sorts about him, he would never hurt a child.
He was generous with his time and money. We had a lot of fun with both our kids.
I've learnt my lesson.
I would never rush into anything like that ever again.
I will probably be single bar the odd date or fwb until my son is grown now.

Graphista · 21/12/2018 00:02

Pogmella - NOBODY has said DC always come first with everything NOR That single mums have to be celibate until their children are adults.

BUT what we are saying is

Overall DC need to be prioritised - they haven't the power, they're vulnerable, a parents job is to protect them.

That if you do meet a new partner you don't blindly rush into introducing them to children, or moving them into YOUR CHILDS HOME without careful and proper preparation and time.

I rather suspect the type of man willing, even pushing to move in very quickly is more likely to be at best thoughtless, possibly controlling and at worst abusive.

And the kind of woman who would move a man in so fast isn't one who is considering her kids well being as much as she should be either. So yea I judge. Not gonna kill you to wait a few months AT LEAST you won't actually disintegrate if you don't live with someone else.

A decent mature man will understand and have the knowledge that it's not what's best for the DC.

"but I find the tone of some posts not particularly empathetic to what single parenting is actually like"
Which posts? Because I suspect that - like me - they ARE single parents themselves and if not they're speaking as the children of single mothers that behaved this way - and that viewpoint is absolutely valid here!

Candy43 the FACT is men are more likely to abuse children, that's not sexism that's reality. The poster who said about BRAND NEW boyfriends babysitting very young vulnerable non verbal children was right - it's irresponsible.

As for "you’d know enough to be able to gauge the risk." I'd argue that the type of parent that thinks the above ISN'T irresponsible probably isn't very good at gauging risk.

I told my mother about my abuse nearly 30 years ago - still doesn't believe me, still denies many of the incidents that happened including ones that resulted in her being hospitalised or in plaster casts etc... I've never trusted her to babysit dd alone because she DOESN'T assess risk appropriately. Neither has my brother trusted her. My sister has and twice my dns were injured. She's far too lax in her approach to childcare. And that's a woman that to others is "normal" - still married to first husband and father of DC, no SS involvement no obvious to outsiders problems.

"but surely you must realise everyone mixes in different circles" which is why I asked and didn't assume. Lots of reasons why some peoples circles are wider/bigger or smaller, limited in type or more varied.

When we're younger ourselves and generally mixing with others our own age/life stage most people are still with their first long term partner/spouse who is likely their biological co-parent.

As we get older couples start to break up and the original parents meet new people, also as we move into new jobs, live in new places, partake in new hobbies and meet more people that are outside our own background our circle starts to enlarge and become more varied so we're more likely to meet people that think and act differently to us.

Out of my friends now in my mid 40's and having moved around a lot (army brat, army wife, then "home" except really my parents home due to dad having been army) there's a mix of couples who are still with their original spouse/partner and their DC are biologically both theirs, single parents (inc 3 dads who are the RP's, one of those and a few of the women who are single parents their partners/spouses died), families with a step parent and blended families, some of the step parents have biological DC of their own, some don't. This all didn't happen overnight, when we were in our 20's those who were parents were still with the other biological parent or that parent was still alive. The few people I knew who were divorced, step parents etc were acquaintances or work colleagues not people I knew well as we had little in common and they were rather busy with their families etc.

"I find it terrifying that you apparently work in criminal law with that dangerous attitude to child safely." Seconded

Pinknike I believe the cinderella effect isn't just about raising non biological children but raising step children alongside biological children or with the biological parent - it's a reaction to the bond between the biological family members

And from the little I know about adoption not having gone through it myself, one or both of a couple having a biological child is considered a factor in assessing suitability as adoptive parents.

Candy43 - most paedo's are men! That's a fact! And it's not just sexual abuse, it's physical too - again far more likely to be perpetrated by a man.

As I said before I personally wouldn't have left my 5 month old with ANYONE who I'd only known 2 months!

"I said that adoption disproves the so called Cinderella theory." Except it doesn't. The checks that potential adopters go through are partly put in place precisely because children are more vulnerable to abuse from non-biological parents.

"There are quite a few justifications for putting men before DCs on this thread now." Scary isn't it?

"If the relationship is meant to be, it will survive that slow burn" exactly! Excellent way of putting it. And any new partner unwilling or unable to cope with that is unlikely to make a good partner/step parent anyway.

"Statistically speaking, children of single parents do far worse" that's been repeatedly shown to be actually due to other factors - less money in the household (not helped by the fact maintenance isn't enforced properly and is ludicrously low!), which means these families are living in less well off areas, going to not as good schools etc. Children of single parents who are quite well off do no worse than those in 2 parent families.

"but eventually" eventually means different things to different people. We've an example on this thread of 2 months! Yes eventually you move toward introducing them to each other, gauge if they get along, then overnights, then a few nights and then think about moving in taking the kids needs into consideration.

Yivamoon - none of those reasons justify risking your child's health & wellbeing.

"I could have stayed on my own, I'm not sure that would have been automatically better for ds than where we are at now." As has been said repeatedly it's not an either or situation, it's not 'never have another live in partner' it's 'caution and thoughtful consideration of the child's needs and pace should be the priority'

GunpowderGelatine · 21/12/2018 00:52

IME by large it's men fucking up their kids lives not women at a ratio of probably 100:1.

But I have to say I was Shock when my brother met his now-wife through a dating website about 10 years ago then moved 400 miles to live with her after chatting online for 2 weeks. They hadn't even met!! She had a 5yo son at the time. WTF was she thinking - my brother could have been anyone! I mean it's fine, they're married with children of their own and 5yo is now a grumpy grunting teenager but still! There's being lonely and then there's putting your child in danger

brookshelley · 21/12/2018 01:02

I prefer to hear from the children in these situations. The parents always justify their choices, the children seem to have a more mixed experience.

My cousin lost his wife last year under tragic circumstances. He started dating a new woman 6 months ago and now they are engaged. The new girlfriend has two young daughters. I find it quite shocking on both of their parts (he also has children), although is grief is probably clouding his judgement. This woman is about to move in and marry a guy she's been with less than a year! All I have said is I hope the children will be OK - I truly worry for them being thrown into this situation.

jessstan2 · 21/12/2018 01:49

brookshelley, they might be fine. Although it is fairly quick, it's not like two months and if they are both decent people committed to their children, it could work out fine.

bluebellsarebells, bless you. You have learned from your mistake, it's all in the past. You're different now.

jessstan2 · 21/12/2018 02:02

I have two members of extended family who joined Gingerbread, the organisation for single parents. Both had two children and had been on their own quite a long time. They both met their current spouses through Gingerbread and have been happily in second marriages for many years, their children adore their step parents - they were not small children when the parents got together but still at home, in education.

There are sensible, thoughtful ways of doing things. From what I've heard, Gingerbread is extremely helpful to single parents in many ways.

DioneTheDiabolist · 21/12/2018 02:33

And it's not just sexual abuse, it's physical too - again far more likely to be perpetrated by a man.
Do you have a source for that Graphista? The last time I did CP training we were told that physical abuse of children is more likely to be perpetrated by the mother.

stopitandtidyupp · 21/12/2018 06:07

Pogmella - NOBODY has said DC always come first with everything NOR That single mums have to be celibate until their children are adults

Some people have said that though. They are vehemently against blended families which is quite sad.

I total agree that waiting to introduce children and moving in should not be done quickly and the slow burn is a good idea but there are a SOME posters on this thread that think it should be the exact opposite. As though the two things are mutually exclusive they are not.

Shepherdspieisminging · 21/12/2018 07:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Belindabauer · 21/12/2018 07:35

I think the problem lies with society and it's expectations.
The ideal is still that of a couple.
Singles are seen as less worthy. By that I don't mean by everyone but the idea of being single is not one that is celebrated by our society.
Look at films and tv shows. All the singles are generally sad, lonely, unhinged.
The aim is to find your other half. Even shit partners are heralded as better than being single, take Fatal Attraction, a crap message. It's better to have a cheating husband than be a single parent.
It's a drip, drip effect.
Single parents are still seen as the 'others'. Even in this day and age.
I've never tried to book a holiday for one adult, but I know that you are ripped off as the 'norm' is for two people.
Women are still viewed in terms of their relationship with a man. Mrs , Miss, Ms proves this. You can argue the point but those standards do not apply to men, they are always Mr regardless of marital status.

That is why women rush into coupling up. You have to be very brave to fight against it.
I have a friend who stopped being invited to dos because ' she would look odd day at the table on her own.' You can say get new friends but the message is loud and clear. Get a man, any man, to be complete. She now lives with someone and they are a blended family.

Notacluethisxmas · 21/12/2018 07:42

Says every mother moving a boyfriend in eve. Seriously must be the key phrase used
'We all adore him' Er, that means you do, and the kids are often given no choice

While I agree with the OP, I don't see how this is any different for children whose biological parents are together.

Mn is full of women saying their other half and father of their kids are complete wankers. Lazy, disrespectful, abusive, financially abusive, dismissive etc and then they always say 'but he is a good dad and the kids adore him so I can't leave'.

Even when people tell the OP that they grew in a similar household and they didn't adore their dad and wished their mother had left, him they still stay.

Then there the ones where the partner is a shit to his own children too and still the OP stays.

These kids still have no choice about the situation they grow up in.

As I said, I do agree with the OP. But let's not pretend that this is only an issue with single parents or step parents. Plenty of people are in relationships they shouldn't be and it's the children that are impacted.

AlaskanOilBaron · 21/12/2018 07:43

I agree OP, it's grim.

My parents were divorced when I was 13, so I had my own life by this time - they were obviously so happy to start their new lives that they allowed me, as a teenager, to detach completely from them.

Every parent of a teenager will know that this is what they do, and it's your job to not allow it to happen.

It was horrible for me to have to deal with their succession of 'friends' and the inevitable excitable bullshit.

It made a traditionalist of me - I wouldn't do that to my children, ever.

AlaskanOilBaron · 21/12/2018 07:45

Says every mother moving a boyfriend in eve. Seriously must be the key phrase used
'We all adore him' Er, that means you do, and the kids are often given no choice

So true. What this means, in many (most?) cases, is that the children (if they're older) are revolted by how pathetic their mother is and they want to do anything but discuss her new boyfriend's shortcomings, or (if they're younger) they are just so relieved that their mother is happy again and they're swept up in the moment.

Evemary · 21/12/2018 07:55

I agree with you OP.

Moving your children in with someone you barely know is dangerous in my opinion. You don’t know these men fully!