***WARNING DISTRESSING CONTENT*** 139 Women murdered by men in 2017

[CaveMum]

I know IANBU but posting here for traffic.

The 2017 Femicide Census was released late yesterday, detailing the women murdered in the UK by men during 2017. Here’s the Guardian’s coverage

DISTRESSING CONTENT

Three-quarters of women killed by men in the UK in 2017 knew the perpetrator, according to a report on femicide.

The Femicide Census, conducted by Women’s Aid and the campaigner Karen Ingala Smith, found that of the 139 women known to have been killed by men in the UK last year, 105 (76%) knew their killer. Thirty women were killed by strangers, with 21 of the 30 killed in terrorist attacks.

The report found that 64 of the women, or 46%, were killed by a current or former intimate partner. Another 24 (17%) were killed by a man known to them – such as a colleague, neighbour or friend – while 17 (12%) were killed by a male family member, of whom 10 were killed by their son. The perpetrator’s relationship to the victim could not be established in four cases.

A sharp instrument was used as a weapon in 66 cases, or 47%, while 82 (59%) were killed at home. More than half of women killed by a former partner were killed within the first month of separation; almost 90% of the same subset were killed within the first year of separation.

For the first time, the Femicide Census collected data on “overkilling”, killings where the force or method used was greater than that required to kill the victim. “Overkilling” was evident in 58 (42%) of the cases.

In one case, a victim was stabbed 175 times, while in others women were “hit 40 times with an axe”, “bludgeoned repeatedly” and “battered virtually beyond all recognition”.

Ingala Smith, the chief executive of the domestic violence charity Nia, said: “The use of excessive violence or desecration after death challenges narratives of momentary loss of control that are especially prevalent in relation to domestic violence.

“Instead it highlights the brutality and misogyny that men bring to their violence against women whether dead or alive and challenges benign rationales given by men which are often accepted and repeated in media coverage of the killings of women.”

Smith said the report challenged widely held assumptions about the nature of violence in society. “The dominant perception of knife crime is one of young men and street violence yet the Femicide Census tells us that 47% of women were killed by knives or sharp objects; in fact, this is the most common method used by men to kill women,” she said.

“It may also surprise some to learn that 40% of women killed by men were aged over 45 and 14% were over the age of 66. Where analyses of violent crime do not look at sex disaggregated data, violence against women continues to be overlooked and made invisible.”

Katie Ghose, the chief executive of Women’s Aid, called on the government to ensure its domestic abuse bill, due to be published imminently, delivered both the legislation and the resources needed to respond effectively to domestic abuse.

“Time and time again, we hear of cases where a woman has been killed by a man as an ‘isolated incident’; yet the latest Femicide Census report shows yet again that this is not the case,” she said. “The majority of these cases are not isolated incidents. There are too many similarities in the circumstances where women are killed by men.”

The Femicide Census contains information on more than 1,000 women killed by men in England and Wales since 2009, Northern Ireland as of 2015 and Scotland as of 2017. A number of cases of suspected femicide are still under investigation, making it likely that the real 2017 figure is higher than that recorded by the report.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/18/femicide-in-uk-76-of-women-killed-by-men-in-2017-knew-their-killer

Yes, you think all men are that petty?

Tell me, how do you take responsibility for infanticide?

I:

Don’t stand for jokes about infanticide

If there was a culture of infanticide at my workplace, I would not take part in it and would make it crystal clear that it wouldn’t be tolerated in my presence

I would bring up my children not to commit acts of infanticide

Should one of my friends commit infanticide I would not look for ways that the child was asking for it or was in some way responsible

When newspapers report on infanticide I would be outraged at headings such as ‘loving mother was driven to this by...’

I’ve got more but I’m running a bit late for something- do you really think these are all difficult things for men to do in relation to male violence?

Should add, I also don’t hijack threads about infanticide stats with different stats about how adults are also murdered so we should all have a bit of perspective.

It's that kind of ignorant thinking which turns so many men off caring Men are not to blame for a man's actions

So yet again it's women that need to sort it out?
Just tell me when is it the turn of men to do their bit?

When they do it's shouted down by women saying that they have it worse
Apparently every time we converse about what women put up with some man comes along and tells us that they have it worse so what are we complaining about, yet we women still get stuff done. Shelters, laws changed, fundraising at exponential rates compared to our salaries.

@Pumperthepumper

I'm sure you thought your reply was a witty commentary. Oops.

You talk about intangible nonsense such as rape culture in your workplace.

You think jokes are the same as the act itself.

You think parents bring up their children to be rapists.

I guess to summarise, you think everyone is somehow to blame for the actions of an individual.

@Flooffloof

"So yet again it's women that need to sort it out? "

Men are told to sort out male problems. I frequently read it on MN. A great example is when male DV victims are mentioned and the lack of support they receive. The general consensus seems to be they should help themselves. As well as helping women? That seems to be double standards, doesn't it? Do you see the irony in your position?

How am I wrong?

"Shelters, laws changed, fundraising at exponential rates compared to our salaries.

"Shelters, laws changed, fundraising at exponential rates compared to our salaries."

Arguably, it's men who got these done. What with them having power in a "patriarchy". Suffrage, for example, was enacted by men and many women didn't want it.

I'm sure you thought your reply was a witty commentary. Oops.

Ah, did I hit a nerve?

I think men have a responsibility to end male violence, yes. I think society can band together to solve societal problems. Who do you think can end male violence?

Arguably, it's men who got these done. What with them having power in a "patriarchy". Suffrage, for example, was enacted by men and many women didn't want it.

Also - do you see the irony in being so certain that all men don’t have a responsibility for male violence yet in the same breath suggest that it’s men who make changes happen? I know you wrote this to be goady but you’re absolutely right about one thing - the world listens to men.

"Ah, did I hit a nerve? "

Yes.

Lack of logic (as someone published on the subject as well as an Aspie) hits my nerves.

Why should men be responsible for the actions of a man? You haven't answered. A few strange false equivalences and baseless statements
along the lines of 'I wouldn't raise my children to murder' but nothing approaching an answer to my pretty straightforward question.

The bit which confuses me most is when a certain type of poster says men should be responsible both for male violence (yes, the non-violent ones somehow are responsible) as well as supporting each other when they're the victims.

I'm interested in your answers so I'll ask again.

1. Why is an innocent man responsible for the actions of another man?

2. Does this extend beyond sex? Race? Species? Age? If not, why only sex?

3. Why should men be the ones to provide DV refuge for men (as I often read here) yet also be responsible when they're the agressors?

4. Why aren't women dealing with female violence if men should be dealing with male violence and its victims?

1. you answered this yourself - because the world listens to men.

2. yes

3. I don’t think I understand this question. I think men should both try to stop male violence and also stop men who have already committed violence from doing it again.

4. I don’t understand this question either. a) because women aren’t being violent at anywhere near the same rates as men and b) because there isn’t the same culture in relation to female violence - I can find the exact stats but something like one third of murders committed by women are in retaliation to a prolonged period of abuse. At the same time however, I don’t think anyone would try to excuse female violence as just one of those things, in the same way they do for men.

Now you answer my questions:

1. do you think men are just being petty?

2. do you see the irony in your statement?

3. what does this statement mean?

Lack of logic (as someone published on the subject as well as an Aspie) hits my nerves.

Published what, on what subject, and where?

Sorry, I think I understand your question three a bit better, although not completely- was it why should men run domestic refuges for men who are victims of violence? Well, why not?

Now you answer my questions:

You didn't answer mine. You didn't come close. 2) was not binary (yes or no). I'll try 3) again as it's important.

You say that men as a group are responsible for the actions of the few. You also say that men should be responsible for them providing help for male victims. How do you justify these apparently contradictory statements?

I'll answer your questions. Happily.

1) do you think men are just being petty?

No. I think many men (plural) are pissed off at the assumption that they are responsible for the actions of a man (singular). Especially against a background of jeers, gammon, toxic masculinity, unearned achievements due to privilege etc

2) do you see the irony in your statement?

Which statement?

Published what, on what subject, and where?

Philosophical logic and computational logic. In journals, articles, written one book and co-authored more. I'm sure you understand how I value my anonymity on MN so don't want to give outing details.

@Pumperthepumper

x-posting

"well, why not?"

You tell me. You think they should sort themselves out when they're the victims as well as taking responsibility when "theyr'e"* the perpetrators? I hope you have a better answer than 'patriarchy' or similar; that would be lazy.

*I still don't think a group is responsible for the actions of an individual. That's the premise of your argument.

2) does this extend beyond sex?

Yes.

I believe it extends beyond sex. I believe that white people, for example, also have a responsibility to recognise that being white comes with privilege.

Your statement that men aren’t responsible for change, yet men make change. Do you see the irony in that?

I don’t understand how your published subject relates in any way to the topic in this OP. I thought you were suggesting you were an expert on sex relations or gender based violence.

You tell me. You think they should sort themselves out when they're the victims as well as taking responsibility when "theyr'e" the perpetrators? I hope you have a better answer than 'patriarchy' or similar; that would be lazy.*

I still don’t understand why this is so controversial- I think men should take responsibility for men’s problems. I guess it depends if you see male violence as a male problem or a female one.

"sex relations or gender based violence"

Gender studies? God no. Is that still a thing?

My specialism is logic and I thought it relevant because your stance(s) are entirely illogical.

Define a men's problem. When they're victims or perpetrators or both? Does this hold true for women? This is where I think you have awful double standard.

I don't think I'll ever get my head around the fact that you think a group is responsible for the actions of an individual.

"I believe it extends beyond sex. I believe that white people, for example, also have a responsibility to recognise that being white comes with privilege."

Why?

This is just another example of your group identity politics which, quite frankly, frightens me.

My parents are rich. Old money. Doomsday Book rich.. I'm a woman. Where do I fit in on the nonsense scale of privilege?

Above black men (DH) but below white men? Below DH?

I'm sure this has been said - but 5th post, 5th fucking post... what about the menz!!

FUCK - I'm

Where do I fit in on the nonsense scale of privilege?

You are totally (deliberately?) misunderstanding what privilege means.

My specialism is logic and I thought it relevant because your stance(s) are entirely illogical

I’m aware that you’re trying to goad and I was prepared to accept it but really, is there any point in continuing this if that’s your main takeaway from this thread? I’ve explained to you several times why I believe all men have a responsibility to end male violence, and how they can do it - and you agreed with me that men make change happen. I can’t see why you would then call that illogical, even from you, an anonymous expert in logic.

Do you honestly believe that being 1) rich 2) white and 3) male gives you no advantage in life?

Who do you think should be caring for male victims of violence? I still can’t understand this point.

Just about your comments, they’re so confrontational. It’s a common theme in so much political debate nowadays, this polarisation. It’s truly disheartening and, well, boring to read.

"Do you honestly believe that being 1) rich 2) white and 3) male gives you no advantage in life?"

I'm female.

I think that advantage and privilege is so incredibly complex as to be useless hence my question. DH is black, working class background and extremely successful. I'm white, female, upper-mid and reasonably successful. Where do we fit?

This is mostly rhetorical. I was trying to point out that the scale of privilege makes no sense.

Who do you think should be caring for male victims of violence? I still can’t understand this point.

You say men are responsible for male violence.

You say men are responsible for male victims.

You say women aren't responsible for female violence; victims or perpetrators.

Try to draw a Venn diagram. It'll be impossible.

Are you really struggling to see why this doesn't make sense? (and I'll ignore your sneery tone)

You say women aren't responsible for female violence; victims or perpetrators.

When did I say this?

Men are told to sort out male problems. I frequently read it on MN. A great example is when male DV victims are mentioned and the lack
of support they receive. The general consensus seems to be they should help themselves. As well as helping women? That seems to
be double standards, doesn't it? Do you see the irony in your position?

Male people can fund and build and staff dv shelters for males, like women did for women.
I don't want them to help me, I am fine as I am. What I want all men to do is make it socially unacceptable to be violent to women in the first place, by :- calling out misogyny, calling out casual sexism (and not so casual) stop being violent to women (and men I guess but I ain't too bothered that's their problem to solve) not nodding at their mates tales of derring do and conquests, actively speak about known rapists and sexual offenders and many other things.

Not sure where the irony is?

What you have failed to understand is that DV shelters and rape crisis centres have been set up not by govt but by women. For women. Men are welcome to do this for men.

Feminism is a movement by women for women to help women understand their problems and try to find ways to resolve them.

I think men urgently need to build their own understanding of what causes them so many problems and then tackle them. I have some suggestions but they’d have to give a shit about male violence before they started asking questions about why it happens. So far .... silence. Better to shut down the conversation isn’t it.

Sarah Wellgreen case: Police make murder arrest www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-46633593

Banker guilty of murdering sex worker with a pestle www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46633592

MP Harriet Harman warns against '50 Shades' murder defence www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46618040

Man appears in court over Poppy Devey-Waterhouse murder www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46590781

Viktorija Sokolova murder: Boy guilty of Wolverhampton park killing www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-46523916

These are all articles from the last WEEK. And these are just the reported cases that I found easily on BBC News.

^A boy who lured a 14-year-old girl to a park and inflicted "incomprehensible" violence upon her has been found guilty of murder and rape.
Viktorija Sokolova's head was "smashed in" with a hammer-like object in a "sustained and ferocious" attack.
Her lifeless, partially clothed body was found dumped on a bench in Wolverhampton's West Park the next day.^

^A City banker has been found guilty of murdering a 29-year-old sex worker by bludgeoning her to death with a pestle.
...
Jurors at Lewes Crown Court heard Ms Abbotts suffered more than 13 wounds to her head and 20 other injuries.^

^A multi-millionaire who left his injured and bleeding partner to die after "rough sex" has been jailed for three years and eight months.
Natalie Connolly had suffered more than 40 separate injuries, the court heard. ^