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***WARNING DISTRESSING CONTENT*** 139 Women murdered by men in 2017

251 replies

CaveMum · 18/12/2018 10:26

I know IANBU but posting here for traffic.

The 2017 Femicide Census was released late yesterday, detailing the women murdered in the UK by men during 2017. Here’s the Guardian’s coverage

DISTRESSING CONTENT

Three-quarters of women killed by men in the UK in 2017 knew the perpetrator, according to a report on femicide.

The Femicide Census, conducted by Women’s Aid and the campaigner Karen Ingala Smith, found that of the 139 women known to have been killed by men in the UK last year, 105 (76%) knew their killer. Thirty women were killed by strangers, with 21 of the 30 killed in terrorist attacks.

The report found that 64 of the women, or 46%, were killed by a current or former intimate partner. Another 24 (17%) were killed by a man known to them – such as a colleague, neighbour or friend – while 17 (12%) were killed by a male family member, of whom 10 were killed by their son. The perpetrator’s relationship to the victim could not be established in four cases.

A sharp instrument was used as a weapon in 66 cases, or 47%, while 82 (59%) were killed at home. More than half of women killed by a former partner were killed within the first month of separation; almost 90% of the same subset were killed within the first year of separation.

For the first time, the Femicide Census collected data on “overkilling”, killings where the force or method used was greater than that required to kill the victim. “Overkilling” was evident in 58 (42%) of the cases.

In one case, a victim was stabbed 175 times, while in others women were “hit 40 times with an axe”, “bludgeoned repeatedly” and “battered virtually beyond all recognition”.

Ingala Smith, the chief executive of the domestic violence charity Nia, said: “The use of excessive violence or desecration after death challenges narratives of momentary loss of control that are especially prevalent in relation to domestic violence.

“Instead it highlights the brutality and misogyny that men bring to their violence against women whether dead or alive and challenges benign rationales given by men which are often accepted and repeated in media coverage of the killings of women.”

Smith said the report challenged widely held assumptions about the nature of violence in society. “The dominant perception of knife crime is one of young men and street violence yet the Femicide Census tells us that 47% of women were killed by knives or sharp objects; in fact, this is the most common method used by men to kill women,” she said.

“It may also surprise some to learn that 40% of women killed by men were aged over 45 and 14% were over the age of 66. Where analyses of violent crime do not look at sex disaggregated data, violence against women continues to be overlooked and made invisible.”

Katie Ghose, the chief executive of Women’s Aid, called on the government to ensure its domestic abuse bill, due to be published imminently, delivered both the legislation and the resources needed to respond effectively to domestic abuse.

“Time and time again, we hear of cases where a woman has been killed by a man as an ‘isolated incident’; yet the latest Femicide Census report shows yet again that this is not the case,” she said. “The majority of these cases are not isolated incidents. There are too many similarities in the circumstances where women are killed by men.”

The Femicide Census contains information on more than 1,000 women killed by men in England and Wales since 2009, Northern Ireland as of 2015 and Scotland as of 2017. A number of cases of suspected femicide are still under investigation, making it likely that the real 2017 figure is higher than that recorded by the report.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/18/femicide-in-uk-76-of-women-killed-by-men-in-2017-knew-their-killer

OP posts:
BigFarmer · 18/12/2018 14:12

whilst I try to further my understanding here
Happy to be proven wrong

No responsibility for your education wee man.

Schmoobarb · 18/12/2018 14:13

I couldn’t believe my eyes that yesterday on the front page of the BBC website there were 2 different stories about men actually/allegedly killing their partners during sex. So utterly grim and depressing

EwItsAHooman · 18/12/2018 14:13

So, whilst I try to further my understanding here; you don't think it pertinent to the discussion to get a perspective on how other people might be misinformed about the scale and causes of the issue?

Once again, women are not responsible for educating you. If you want to learn, go educate yourself then come back and discuss it.

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 14:14

But boys grow up thinking that their interests, their toys, their books, everything about them, are superior to those marketed towards girls.

Probably not helped by the trend to include girls in the marketing of (traditionally) male toys, but not vice versa.

I can't dispute that porn adds to an objectification of women. Porn used to be a bit unattainable on all sides (didn't it?) - the lavish sex lives of the beautiful people in equally lavish surroundings. I'm lead to believe that 'normal' men are a bit more commonplace now, whereas the women are still presented as unattainable.

UpstartCrow · 18/12/2018 14:23

Risk factors for DV have been well studied, they are not a mystery. They include;

Pregnancy
Separation
Strangulation
Stalking, Controlling, jealous, obsessive behaviours
Suicide threat by perpetrator
Buying weapons and making threats to kill
Past domestic and family violence

dfvbenchbook.aija.org.au/dynamics-of-domestic-and-family-violence/factors-affecting-risk/

With DV and especially with family annihilators, it is common for friends and neighbours to be unaware of problems and to say that the perpetrator was a nice guy who suddenly became violent out of the blue, that he 'just snapped'.
Loss of face and loss of control of the other person are common triggers.

This book is a must read, as logic and reason cannot be used to control emotional behaviours;
''Why We Snap: Understanding the Rage Circuit in Your Brain'' by Douglas Fields

www.thecut.com/2016/01/neuroscience-behind-i-just-snapped.html

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2018 14:23

So, whilst I try to further my understanding here; you don't think it pertinent to the discussion to get a perspective on how other people might be misinformed about the scale and causes of the issue?

Adam, you seem desperate to try and ‘teach’ on this thread - unfortunately it’s a subject you clearly don’t know much about, as proved by your NAMALT and ‘what about the men’ comments you made earlier in the thread. Instead of trying to teach, why don’t you use this thread as a learning opportunity? You’ve been given lots of information and even some links - why not go and read a bit more about this issue and you might gain a better insight.

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 14:23

Happy to be proven wrong

Sorry, didn't mean by posters on here, I meant generally. I was trying to make a point about basing solutions on evidence of causation, rather than things that logically feel right (my own assumptions and experiences included)

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 14:29

why don’t you use this thread as a learning opportunity

I am trying to learn. It's quite hard to unpick what you've done wrong when it's delivered with so much hate. I may be the outsider/newcomer to this, with some missteps along the way; but I was genuinely trying to engage in this with an approach to a solution

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2018 14:35

but I was genuinely trying to engage in this with an approach to a solution

By suggesting that everyone was wrong because what they said didn’t match your experience? Also ‘so much hate’ - you were one of the first posters on this thread and your immediate response/reaction was to minimise. I really think you should accept some responsibility for the response that you got, and continue to get. Just listen

TanteRose · 18/12/2018 14:40

ParkheadParadise Flowers

Cannot believe that we have a NAMALT comment almost right from the off on this thread FFS...

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 14:42

I'm sorry I minimised. I wasn't trying to. Rookie error.
I'm trying to listen. It can be hard when you're being lumped in with the problem. I'll stop moaning though - I don't like being whiny, and I'm not that thin skinned.

BigFarmer · 18/12/2018 14:43

delivered with so much hate

Hate? Women aren't the ones strangling, stabbing, raping and killing 139 men a year. Sorry if the nasty women who were upset by these deaths made you feel bad though. Least this thread was all about you and not 139 women. Good luck with your "education".

NonExistentFox · 18/12/2018 14:44

Once again, women are not responsible for educating you. If you want to learn, go educate yourself then come back and discuss it.

How is he supposed to do this except by getting women's perspective on stuff?

(And yes, porn is by default a misogynist shitshow as things stand.)

CleopatrasMum · 18/12/2018 14:45

I can't dispute that porn adds to an objectification of women. Porn used to be a bit unattainable on all sides (didn't it?) - the lavish sex lives of the beautiful people in equally lavish surroundings. I'm lead to believe that 'normal' men are a bit more commonplace now, whereas the women are still presented as unattainable.

I am not sure I is the contrast between the attainability or otherwise of the men and women and in porn that is the issue here, although I agree it probably does lead some men to think that no woman should be out of their reach,. However, there was a thread on here a while ago where a woman commented who has made a study on the increasing levels of violence in porn and the expectations that places on girls and boys as to what is now acceptable in sex. I looked at some of the links she posted and they were horrific. The things that women are shown as accepting and are made to appear as if they might even be enjoying are frankly terrifying. The most frightening thing probably in the context of this discussion is the way in which what might be considered fairly mainstream porn is taking on a BDSM slant with the women regularly being subjected to beating, strangulation, humiliation etc,, again putting men in a superior position and women in an inferior situation.

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 14:49

Cannot believe that we have a NAMALT comment almost right from the off on this thread FFS...

Sorry. I had not encountered that as a thing before.

Thread has a (somewhat distant) connection to me. I taught a 16yr old boy once. When he turned 18, he groomed, raped, and murdered a 14yr old boy. Whilst he was a bit odd, no one saw that. There's a lot of "if only...then it wouldn't...." feeling around this.
A lot of my work is constructing solutions around behavioural insights; it seemed natural to me to offer the bit I know about that into a discussion; in the hope it could be useful. Apologies if my blundering in caused offence.

TanteRose · 18/12/2018 14:52

Yeah well...I actually read about these statistics in the Daily Fail which had photos of all the women murdered by men this year - the comments were depressingly “wot about the menz” from the off there too

Flooffloof · 18/12/2018 15:09

Oh Adam, read the room mate.
If you really want to educate yourself read the books we do
Lundy Bancroft, etc, do the freedom programme online etc

FixTheBone · 18/12/2018 15:09

I have to say, I take great issue with the way the debate can be framed sometimes.

As a father of sons I've taken great pains to teach them to respect and to treat with respect all people, men and women.

I don't agree with a lot of what Adam says, or how he says it, but there is a genuine point that the second you s start blaming men as a single entity, many how would otherwise be open for debate and dare I say education and behaviour change disengage.

On the first page there was a mention about a curfew, imagine if you'd said the crime rates are higher in black people, so no blacks should be allowed out after dark - it'd rightly be considered outrageous, why should bigotry against men, or the Welsh, or any other groupe be tolerated?

BigFarmer · 18/12/2018 15:22

WHAT ABOUT THE WELSH!

M0RVEN · 18/12/2018 15:25

I don’t know anything about having cancer. Ive not had it, I’ve not nursed anyone through it, I’m not a doctor or a researcher. It doenst affect my life.

So I thought I’d educate myself by popping along to some cancer support groups and telling that they are doing it wrong. I could give the doctors the benefit of my theories, because it’s people like me that they need to centre in their thinking.

Then I could accuse them of hate when they tell me to go and read a book.

That wouldn’t make me an arsehole, would it ?

Bittermints · 18/12/2018 15:26

FixTheBone, I'm married to a decent man. My father, my brother, my son are all decent men. I get that this must be galling to read. But women are hardly ever violent in this way. Almost all sexual violence is committed by men. Most murders are committed by men. Men don't experience domestic violence as much as women do.

Men have always been violent. Hunter gatherer societies, where they still exist, are still extremely violent. The commonest cause of death for men in one New Guinea tribe Jared Diamond studied was murder (IIRC). Levels of violence in the UK are actually lower than they were a century or two ago. But we still have a long way to go, and men are the problem here, not women. That's why women on this thread are so angry about it. We suffer, our children suffer, the decent men are often collateral damage too.

It's no good getting defensive about it. The stats are unarguable. What can be done to bring boys up not to be violent? What can be done to bring girls up to have better self-esteem, to recognise the red flags, to set boundaries and not to accept selfish, harmful behaviour from men? What can be done to get law enforcement agencies and politicians to take this more seriously and punish it appropriately?

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 15:27

If you really want to educate yourself read the books we do. Lundy Bancroft, etc, do the freedom programme online etc

I will, but the 2 needn't be exclusive.
I have academic quals and experience coming out of my eyeballs. Sadly, the only real takeaway from any of that is that most of the claims are complete bunk, based on flawed methodology and marginal stats. So I was looking for something beyond the books.
I joined MN initially for a work thing, but stayed because I got insight into a world not my own. (There's a much much bigger thing behind this, but too long and off topic to go on this thread).
Today I learned that I can be a dick without meaning to be (I'm normally aware when I'm being a dick. I don't troll, but don't get concerned if my pov is unpopular either). I am also horrified to discover I was only one step away from a Daily Fail pov. I need to have a word with myself.

I guess, thanks for the kick up the arse, consider me told. However, I'm clumsy, but I'm not your enemy

Monkeynuts18 · 18/12/2018 15:30

It’s bizarre, isn’t it.

When a Muslim commits a terrorist attack (a rare event) people start to talk about ‘problems within Islam’, ‘what the Muslim community can do to address the issue’, etc. We barricade bridges and deploy more police. Some people say we should shut down faith schools. Some people say we need to revisit our immigration policies. Some nutters start squawking about how we should deport all the Muslims.

Yet men take women’s lives away from them on a much greater scale - sometimes at complete random, for no other reason than because their chosen victim is female and they hate women so much they feel compelled to kill one - and we just have to accept it. Any objections will be met with shrieks of ‘NAMALT’ or ‘what about the Menz’. (By the way, it should be noted the higher rate of male murder victims is in large part accounted for by much greater male involvement in organised crime. If murder statistics for each sex were equalised to exclude gang-related violence, it would look different).

Also I think the statistics in the OP’s post only apply to adult women. If you counted victims who are girls under 18, I reckon the figures would look even scarier.

Flooffloof · 18/12/2018 15:45

So I was looking for something beyond the books

If you have been here awhile, you will know the stuff we post to women in need.

We do this because we can see the signs that that woman is about to be assaulted or killed. And we know that the danger times are when a woman us thinking about leaving.
We know this because a whole bunch of us lived it already.
Remember #metoo? If it's namalt, it's just a few hundred very busy and very violent men. Who really need to locked up for everyone's safety.
So namalt is not true. It's just being said to pacify men.

AdamNichol · 18/12/2018 15:54

So namalt is not true
If namalt is not true then ALL men must be the same. So, I must be an abusive murderer-in-waiting then?
I'm sorry for the experience of women at the hands of men. But I do not share the blame for it.

All muslims are not culpable for terrorism. All christians are not culpable for the bombings of abortion clinics.