***WARNING DISTRESSING CONTENT*** 139 Women murdered by men in 2017

[CaveMum]

I know IANBU but posting here for traffic.

The 2017 Femicide Census was released late yesterday, detailing the women murdered in the UK by men during 2017. Here’s the Guardian’s coverage

DISTRESSING CONTENT

Three-quarters of women killed by men in the UK in 2017 knew the perpetrator, according to a report on femicide.

The Femicide Census, conducted by Women’s Aid and the campaigner Karen Ingala Smith, found that of the 139 women known to have been killed by men in the UK last year, 105 (76%) knew their killer. Thirty women were killed by strangers, with 21 of the 30 killed in terrorist attacks.

The report found that 64 of the women, or 46%, were killed by a current or former intimate partner. Another 24 (17%) were killed by a man known to them – such as a colleague, neighbour or friend – while 17 (12%) were killed by a male family member, of whom 10 were killed by their son. The perpetrator’s relationship to the victim could not be established in four cases.

A sharp instrument was used as a weapon in 66 cases, or 47%, while 82 (59%) were killed at home. More than half of women killed by a former partner were killed within the first month of separation; almost 90% of the same subset were killed within the first year of separation.

For the first time, the Femicide Census collected data on “overkilling”, killings where the force or method used was greater than that required to kill the victim. “Overkilling” was evident in 58 (42%) of the cases.

In one case, a victim was stabbed 175 times, while in others women were “hit 40 times with an axe”, “bludgeoned repeatedly” and “battered virtually beyond all recognition”.

Ingala Smith, the chief executive of the domestic violence charity Nia, said: “The use of excessive violence or desecration after death challenges narratives of momentary loss of control that are especially prevalent in relation to domestic violence.

“Instead it highlights the brutality and misogyny that men bring to their violence against women whether dead or alive and challenges benign rationales given by men which are often accepted and repeated in media coverage of the killings of women.”

Smith said the report challenged widely held assumptions about the nature of violence in society. “The dominant perception of knife crime is one of young men and street violence yet the Femicide Census tells us that 47% of women were killed by knives or sharp objects; in fact, this is the most common method used by men to kill women,” she said.

“It may also surprise some to learn that 40% of women killed by men were aged over 45 and 14% were over the age of 66. Where analyses of violent crime do not look at sex disaggregated data, violence against women continues to be overlooked and made invisible.”

Katie Ghose, the chief executive of Women’s Aid, called on the government to ensure its domestic abuse bill, due to be published imminently, delivered both the legislation and the resources needed to respond effectively to domestic abuse.

“Time and time again, we hear of cases where a woman has been killed by a man as an ‘isolated incident’; yet the latest Femicide Census report shows yet again that this is not the case,” she said. “The majority of these cases are not isolated incidents. There are too many similarities in the circumstances where women are killed by men.”

The Femicide Census contains information on more than 1,000 women killed by men in England and Wales since 2009, Northern Ireland as of 2015 and Scotland as of 2017. A number of cases of suspected femicide are still under investigation, making it likely that the real 2017 figure is higher than that recorded by the report.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/18/femicide-in-uk-76-of-women-killed-by-men-in-2017-knew-their-killer

Wow. Just wow. So let me get this right AdamNichol . It's my job as a woman to work out why a tiny minority of men kill their partners/former partners and to INTERVENE before it happens. Why is it my job as a woman ? Why isn't it a man's job, or everybody's job, to try and work on this problem ? And if a woman doesn't work it out and intervene then is it her fault if she's murdered ? Utter crap.

And to the other poster. It's so text book to call women crazy and harpies if they dare to talk about their experience of being female where this might start to criticise males. Women are conditioned to be nice, kind, compliant, to put others first. That's not going to happen in a discussion about men killing women. If men don't like what I'm saying fine, disagree with me, but I'll keep on saying it.

Right, so because it is on TV sometimes men think women want to be beaten up and killed? Do we genuinely credit them with that little?

What a bizarre reading of my post. I think the point is that these men are socialised in such a way that other people’s (particularly women’s and children’s) wants are barely relevant to them. Women and children are their possessions, not their equals. And the rights of ownership include the right to destroy. In their eyes.

In every country in the world, men murder a lot of women, whereas comparatively few women murder men.

So that's across across the entire range of human cultures, religions, political systems, welfare systems, levels of unemployment, social mobility, wealth etc.

Is male violence due to socialisation across every past or present human culture ?

Is it biology ?

• a higher inclination to violence that can be more easily aroused
• opportunity - the average man has significantly higher physical strength than the average woman, more muscle mass, height, weight

Women are told all the time how to not get raped so a curfew is something men can do to not kill or be killed by other men. Don't worry they will continue killing women, there's no glossing over of that

You’re creating the very thing you fear.

Aka, "It's your own fault men are violent."

name the problem Adam babe

A minority of men are killers.

How do we stop them killing (women or men)?
My proposal (form earlier in the thread) - physical prevention - more places of security for women, and greater resourcing for police to intercede in a violent event. Both of which cut it a bit fine, so I also proposed trying to improve sources of support for the types of men who turn killer (whatever such types may be) to prevent matters ever getting anywhere near this far.

Apologies if I have mansplained. I sometimes get jumped on for being unclear/taken the wrong way; so if I have patronised in my attempts to be clear, I am sorry. I am equally sorry if anyone took the notion that I was downplaying the horror of domestic abuse / violence against women.

And for some of the nastier comments directed at me: I am not your enemy.

If it's biology we definitely need to introduce a curfew for men. Only reasonable course of action in those circumstances.

So let me get this right AdamNichol . It's my job as a woman to work out why a tiny minority of men kill their partners/former partners and to INTERVENE before it happens. Why is it my job as a woman ? Why isn't it a man's job, or everybody's job, to try and work on this problem?

I proposed that it is the job of society / whoever does the solution. at what point did I ever say it was the job of women specifically to intervene????

Why do we need more places of security for men? Wouldn’t it be better to have secure places for men?

How would you identity which men will “ become killers “? Maybe men who are already violent , no? How do you plan to support Therese men who are already violent ?

these men

Men kill men and women for vastly different reasons (on the whole) so pumping all male violence together is unhelpful

Lumping

I read the comments section of the Daily Mail (I know, I'm an idiot) article about this. Pretty much every other comment was along the lines "what about the women that kill men" or "what about the men being killed". Why are most men so afraid to say these stats are horrific? Is it because it's all a little too close to home? To condemn other men for violence would they need to take a look at their own actions?

I have pretty much lost hope for society.

Tell you what Iatemygrandma. Get back to us when women are murdering their husbands, partners, exes, and kids at the same rate as men do and then we can have a talk about 'man-hating' ok?

FFS, the suggestion of a curfew was tongue in cheek.

Parkhead I am so sorry for your loss.

Here’s another article for you, this time from the BBC. A UN report says that an average 137 women are murdered EVERY DAY across the world by their partners/family members.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46292919

But of course, this is not a problem.

There's a thread going on at the moment where people are talking about encouraging their children to 'hit back harder' if their child is hit by another child at school. No understanding at all that this perpetuates male violence, many comments about how their child hit back and the bully moved on and there child is so confident now. Absolutely terrifying.

Am keeping up. A PP suggested a curfew for men. That is shameful.

Well it would be if it was intended as a serious suggestion. But it's actually a comment on how women are continually told how to behave to prevent someone attacking us.

And another piece from the Guardian: amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/14/why-is-the-rise-in-domestic-violence-being-ignored?CMP=share_btn_tw&__twitter_impression=true

So far in 2018, 27 women have been murdered in London alone in incidents of domestic violence compared to 9 in 2017.

It is an epidemic and it is only going to keep rising unless people speak out, so that is what I am doing in creating this thread: speaking out.

Parkhead

It's surprisingly revealing to reverse the sexes sometimes in common advice, situations etc. Manwhohasitall on Twitter is brilliant at this.

Men should be subject to a curfew for public safety - horrific! What an appalling slight on most men. Unacceptable curtailment of their freedom.

There's a rapist active in the area. All women are advised to stay at home or only go out with a trusted friend. - Common sense. Any woman who objects or ignores that is a fool or a slag and it will be her fault if she gets attacked.

I struggle to understand the causes of male on female violence - or even really, male on male violence.
I don't have the need to make other people act the way I want them to. Ergo, I certainly never have the need to force my control on anyone by violent means.

Another poster suggested socialisation. Certainly, violence is glorified in the media; but I have never bought the TV causes behaviour argument. It is weird that you can watch explicit violent slaughter on TV, but not sex. But, entertainment is just that. Watching bake-off didn't send me into the kitchen. Maybe it's different for different sorts of men.

Another poster suggested biology. Testosterone and adrenalin is not a good combination, but I feel like this lets men off the hook for their own choices.

Working off the assumption that most men don't actively want to go around killing people, it must be that they make a choice to do this for some reason. My suspicion is that the reason stems from a stigma in male society about reaching out for help - perhaps more so in western capitalism that promotes competition over cooperation across all stratos of society > to need help is to be weak is to lose.

I'm lucky (?) I guess. At the extreme of stress, I shut down and disengage, I don't go violent. I guess some men turn violent. What their loved ones need is something to disrupt that downward spiral.

Women are told all the time how to not get raped so a curfew is something men can do to not kill or be killed by other men.

Ingenious. Keep them at home, the place where women are most likely to be killed by them.

Anyone who gives more than a cursory thought to "how not to get raped" whilst walking around at night is thinking about it too much. Women have not been kept down by the presence of any genuine threat to our personal safety in public places (we're less at risk than men), but by the fear that even many women are complicit in stoking; and the idea that somehow becoming a victim is within our control. This constant narrative of women risk assessing every two minutes and scrutinising their every decision plays into this idea that being a victim is something avoidable if only you behave in a certain way.

It isn't.

We're no more likely to be victims in public than men are. Basic common sense is all we need to keep ourselves as safe as we can be, and any safer than that we cannot hope to guarantee, no matter what we do. So let's stop this now.

At home, in intimate relationships, is another story.

Adam, if you're genuinely interested in trying to understand male violence against women you should do some research. Trying to work it out solely from the basis of your own experience isn't going to yield useful results. There's plenty of material out there if you're willing to put the effort in. Lundy Bancroft's work is useful - he's written about his extensive work with male abusers.

''he just snapped'' is a common comment made after an incident. Its impossible to tell who will snap or what will trigger them, but two common risks factors for DV are falling pregnant or leaving.

''Why We Snap: Understanding the Rage Circuit in Your Brain'' by Douglas Fields

www.thecut.com/2016/01/neuroscience-behind-i-just-snapped.html

How would you identity which men will “ become killers “? Maybe men who are already violent , no? How do you plan to support Therese men who are already violent?

I should probs stop using the word support - stems from a career in teaching where bullies have to be 'supported' out of their behaviour - which acknowledges that the behaviour (mostly) has a cause beyond the person is merely a dick.

Ii wish I had a method for anticipate, intercept, and prevent; but I don't. I was hoping the thread could garner some collective wisdom on this.

The status quo is too after-the-fact. A bit like the hate crime legislation. If assault is already a crime, and people do it, why would making it 2 crimes make any difference? Smacks of trying to look like a problem is being addressed instead of actually addressing it.