to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

[brizzledrizzle]

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

SilverDoe
It's fairly clear that surfer is one of the types of leave voters who will like to say Brexit means brexit, we won you lost get over it, eugh you lot are remoaners, we are leaving so get over it. Project fear is a conspiracy.
It's the only logical explanation for such illogical opinions.

Even people I know who voted leave accept there were issues with the campaign and they're bothered by the idea of no deal. I dont agree with their views on Brexit but at least they are well informed and don't spout silly claims.

I don't know a single leave voter who voted based on any campaign.

People vote based on their own experiences, their own research, debates everywhere, family, friends social circle, work.

Sure a couple of people could have been solely influenced ironically by the guardian... But most would be influenced by far lore than a slogan on a bus.

It's really degenerating to suggest otherwise.

No problem Silverdoe

SilverDoe
It’s just desperate remainers trying to clutch at any straw available.
Who’s investigating the remain campaign?
Let’s scrutinize every penny they spent & every word they said shall we?

I'm really confused.
We ARE leaving the EU in 14 weeks. Deal or no deal.

Why cannot people just except it. Why keep bickering? Maybe the leave campaign did lie. But we are still leaving.

As for parliament looking after the interests of the whole country, that is the biggest lie ever.
They will continue to look after themselves. They are all rich and privileged enough not to give a toss.

Why cannot people just except it. Why keep bickering? Maybe the leave campaign did lie. But we are still leaving.

Breaking rules undermines democracy. Apparently democracy was very important to leavers. Brexit will damage the social and economic fabric of the UK for decades. EU citizens in UK and Brits in the EU have been in limbo for 2.5 years. People have every right to "bicker".

MPs are supposed to do the best thing for the country. I didn't say they were doing it.

If the Leave campaign lied that really is an affront to democracy. A decision as big as Brexit can't be made based on a lie.

Hahah apt username Russiawithlove

We’re not clutching at anything surferjet those are all very valid reasons to want a second referendum if one is possible, and one is still possible, albeit unlikely.

I’m sure if the lying and illegal activity was done on the side you don’t agree with, you’d be just as very vocal as you are now about how unfair it is.

Russiawithlove

Nothing is certain.

Tony Blair - the number 1 enemy of the people - is still trying to stop brexit.
What an absolute tosser that man is.

Anyway, enough of this, I’m off to decorate the Christmas tree 🎄

And I do find it ironic that the same people saying “lol so what” about illegal overspending an “so what if they lied” are the same people who cry and scream about what an insult to democracy a second vote would be

Brexit/leave has never been particularly coherent or joined up in its thinking.

These arguments are pointless.

Some reminers argued that brexit would be a disaster for us. The same people who argued not joining the euro would be a disaster for us.

Carny argues a disaster scenario... King argues we will be fine.

Both sides campaigned the artificial version... How many people voted based on a campaign as opposed to their own lives, ideas, research, friends, family, wider social circle etc

No I'm not crying or whinging. I refuse to waste my energy. I'm a realist and pragmatist.

We are leaving. And I will adapt my lifestyle accordingly. For better or worse I like everyone else will have to suck it up.

Il ignore the Russian remark..how low can you go

Neither has remain though ghost and neither has the eu!

This is the problem!

So, because they don’t want us to go, they’ve decided aggression and threats of punishment and trying to scare a reluctant population back into the EU.

@Augusta2012 I would be really interested in some examples of where the EU are acting in the way you describe. As far as I can see, the EU have asked us what we want, and set out their own 'red lines':

• the four freedoms come as a package , so that we cannot cherry pick one without the others and
• asked for a backstop which, lets face it, is their way of making us stick to the terms of the internationally recognised Good Friday Agreement (GFA), until an alternative has been agreed.

Sounds fair enough to me, rather than aggression and punishment.

Every time we, the UK, ask for that backstop to be time limited, we are saying 'do not make us stick to the GFA for ever. Not a great start to having the freedom to negotiate our own deals, but going back on the last one, is it?

I don't think there should be another vote because I don't think there should have been one in 2016. I don't trust the majority of the public to engage critically with the the issues and vote sensibly. I don't trust politicians to not manipulate us and exploit the fact that many people don't understand the complex issues facing us.
I think the government needs to make a decision based on the risks and benefits, it should not be down to us just so they can blame the total shit storm on 'the will of the people'.

Given that leaving with no deal would mean trading on WTO terms and necessitate a hard border in Ireland /Northern Ireland which would be illegal and also destroy British industry but Leavers don't seem to care about that, there can be no "No Deal" option in a 2nd referendum. You can't offer something which can't be done. I think accepting May's WA is also problematic, both because it's a crap deal and because nobody likes it. The only way forward is a 2nd referendum with a choice of remain or May's deal. This doesn't negate the first referendum, it clarifies it.

And I do find it ironic that the same people saying “lol so what” about illegal overspending an “so what if they lied” are the same people who cry and scream about what an insult to democracy a second vote would be
I agree.
But then the people I see offline who do that haven't got many brain cells (and also buy into Brexit means brexit, we don't need no experts)

The people I know on both sides of the debate who have an ounce of common sense and something about them actually manage to find common ground over the handling of the first referendum, even if they hold differing views on what is best for the country.

Acts of agression:
1)Insisting on the non-negotiability of the four freedoms (clear from the start).
2)Insisting on an insurance (the “backstop”) against a hard border on the island of Ireland, (which would endanger the peace treaty that is the Good Friday Agreement).
3)Use of the word nebulous, unknown to native English speakers in the UK and so perceived as a terrible insult.

Neither has remain though ghost and neither has the eu!
That's not actually true though is it. See Finallyhere's post above.

There was a General Election in 2015. And another one in 2017. Was having elections within 2 years undemocratic?

The EU has been very clear throughout the negotiations.

I'd say yes if I thought that there would be decent information-based campaigns that people would actually listen to, consider impacts without bias and decide on the basis of the best facts available. Leaving the EU is not the trivial matter many seem to think. We will have foreign powers on our shores again, it may very well spell the end of the UK, could have serious implications for security and peace in Europe, and all the talk about 'temporary pain which we will get over' hides the number of deaths and huge hardships for anyone not in the rich landowning families that will result.

Unfortunately I've been having a number of conversations with people lately that make me realise just how uneducated, close-minded, insular, judgemental, spiteful and hopelessly conformist many British people are. Whether it's geography or whatever caused it, most people are not going to be able to look past the media campaigns of the last 40 years which blame the EU for everything going wrong here. Cheers all politicians for the last 40 years, between austerity and your pathetic party politicking, you have destroyed us all.

May we all get what we deserve. Or better, preferably, in my case.

I can buy into a ‘people’s vote’ on the Brexit deal, but only if ‘remain’ is not an option.
This ^^. We had a bloody vote and some of us did actually know what we voted for! If we rerun that vote then we can rerun the last general election and keep rerunning it until Theresa May has a conservative leave MP in EVERY seat! And if it takes till the end of time then so be it. You can't just rerun things you don't like.

@borntobequiet 😀