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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

695 replies

brizzledrizzle · 15/12/2018 23:00

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

OP posts:
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5
FinallyHere · 16/12/2018 10:15

I'm wondering whether a second referendum would also be advisory? Unlike the last one, would we put a minimum level of support required to carry the result, or stick with the status quo? What would the status quo be? Sigh.

recently · 16/12/2018 10:21

We had a bloody vote and some of us did actually know what we voted for!
How can you possibly have known when we have only just found out the details?

If we rerun that vote then we can rerun the last general election and keep rerunning it
Confused That's exactly what we do! It's called democracy.

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 10:26

All U.K. referenda are advisory because parliament is sovereign.

lonelyplanetmum · 16/12/2018 10:27

We had a bloody vote and some of us did actually know what we voted for!

How on earth could Leavers know what trade ' plan' they voted for when the government didn't (and still don't) have an f.ing clue??

ginghamstarfish · 16/12/2018 10:48

No. 'People's Vote' = Referendum. Don't see why giving it a different name seems to mean it's ok to ignore the results of the first one. All politicians lie when up for election, this was no different and I'm sure most folks already had their opinion before the campaigns started. I don't know anyone who was dithering and ready to be swayed one way or another.

recently · 16/12/2018 10:52

Don't see why giving it a different name seems to mean it's ok to ignore the results of the first one
It's not ignoring the results of the first one, it is specifying what was actually meant by the first one now we know what the deal is. If you still want to leave, you can vote to leave.

All politicians lie when up for election, this was no different and I'm sure most folks already had their opinion before the campaigns started

No, they don't. In any case, this WAS a different. This will change our country forever. It's not like a general election that will be rerun in a few years' time. We need to get it right.

I don't know anyone who was dithering and ready to be swayed one way or another.
So? I know a lot of people who were. I would also hope that people would look at the evidence before making such a momentous decision.

PebbleDashed · 16/12/2018 11:26

We had a bloody vote and some of us did actually know what we voted for!
Are you mainland British and did you consider the impact on NI too? There's a good thread running on here now about that. I should have added civil war in Ireland to my list of possible impacts .

Russiawithlove · 16/12/2018 11:33

But even a civil war won't change anything. The British government don't give a shit.
They will simply prosecute and arrest.
The status quo will not change.

Eyewhisker · 16/12/2018 11:33

Pebbles, it’s not civil war in Ireland, it’s civil war in the UK. NI is part of the UK so it is the UK which has had a 30 year civil war and is now considering breaking the International Peace Treaty which ended it.

SonEtLumiere · 16/12/2018 11:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PebbleDashed · 16/12/2018 11:43

Eyewhisker I confess I only have a broad awareness of Irish and Northern Irish history & politics, thanks for the info.

PebbleDashed · 16/12/2018 11:46

Aaarggh that didn't sound right either, sorry! I'm reading, honest.

KennDodd · 16/12/2018 11:51

We had a bloody vote and some of us did actually know what we voted for!

Well this mess is what you voted for, turning the UK into an international laughing stock. If that doesn't match whatever fantasy you had going on in your head when you voted then, in fact, you didn't know what you voted for.

KennDodd · 16/12/2018 12:01

@RangeRider

I think we did have a re-run of the 2015 GE in 2017. I don't remember people calling that undemocratic or rioting about it.

megletthesecond · 16/12/2018 12:03

Too many people don't bother to read up on this stuff and understand the implications. I expect we'd have the same result.

bpisok · 16/12/2018 12:09

I think we all are missing the point here. We have 3 months until we crash out.
The UK (senior negotiators,lawyers and civil servants - not just the government) have spent the last 2 years negotiating a withdrawal agreement. The deal that has been brought back is the best they could get.
If we ask for an extension we need unanimous agreement from the E.U. to do this. Why would they agree? They don't want to drag it out any longer than we do. The deal is the most that they will offer - we are already down to the wire - as many concessions that can be made have been made. An extension to renegotiate is pointless- they won't renegotiate. This is as good as it's going to get, so no extension
So right now at this moment in time we really do only have 3 options- crash out, accept the deal or stay.
Parliament seem to represent the people - they are as divided as the rest of the nation.
So what should we do to get out of the impasse? The default is crash out which is the least popular answer.
We need an extension of time - the only way that we are going to get this from the E.U. is to GUARANTEE that the result of a referendum is brought into effect immediately. No talks, no nothing - just implement the decision.
As much as it pains me there's prob going to be yet another referendum. Unfortunately what needs to happen is the WA gets voted on in parliament. The understanding being that if it's voted down then it's a crash out or withdraw Article 50 referendum
The moderates may get behind the current deal? Or they may prefer to put the the impact of not accepting the deal back to the people- who knows?
The only other way this can play out is if we don't ask for an extension and parliament then vote on Deal vs Crash out. So parliament will then vote to agree the deal (the running the clock down approach which will alienate literally everyone (leavers, Remainers the tories, labour).

....so, what I am trying to say is that it makes no difference what we voted for in 2016. It's what do we do now that we know the real choices.
All the posturing and game playing on all sides of the house are detrimental to this process. We don't have time for a general election and even if we did the 3 choices on the table will remain the only 3 choices available to us.
What happens right now is for parliament to vote on the bloody deal - not on party lines but on the basis of what's best for this country and all its people.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/12/2018 12:11

Current deal. No deal exit or stay!

So spilt the leave vote. Democracy in action.

Russiawithlove · 16/12/2018 12:16

Parliament will not be back in session until the 2nd week of Jan.
Then they have to vote which will be earliest Feb.
We leave 6 weeks later

Do you really think 6 weeks is enough time to ask for an extension. Get the public to re vote and run a campaign. Then implement the result.
It's not going to happen.

Russiawithlove · 16/12/2018 12:18

Yes it is a mess. The biggest mess is they have run out of time. Parliament know it and so does the EU.

MaisyPops · 16/12/2018 12:20

How on earth could Leavers know what trade ' plan' they voted for when the government didn't (and still don't) have an f.ing clue??
Because Brexit means brexit, obviously. Despite the clear lack of plan or coherent position during the campaign some average joes will claim they know vastly more than anyone knew at the time. Wink

Reality is person A voted leave based on their version of leave, and person B voted on their version of leave which was different to A's position, but C voted leave and thought some of B's position was good and a little bit of As. Person D feels hard done to that some foreign doctor is stealing their jobs when they have 4 GCSEs and a criminal record but hey them foreigners are ruining Britain and Muslims try to have Christmas cancelled every year. Person E considers themselves not racist but when you dig behind it really their main reason to leave was free movement. Person F is left wing and felt that voting leave might mean being able yo negotiate better and preferential conditions for British workers first. Person G was concerned with TTIP and had reservations there. Person H wants a Norway style agreement. Person I claims they want parliament to be sovereign because the EU have been policing our bananas.

Some of those people are intelligent people who may have a different political view to me.
Some of those people are absolute idiots with half a brain cell who'll claim 'yeah but so what... We won so nerrr you should get over it. Brexit means Brexit and because im not intelligent enough to understand nuances of the debate on both sides ill get sucked into the anti expert chat because i dont need no experts telling me what to do

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 12:20

BoneyBackJefferson I'm sure I've explained how a three option referendum works before to you.

Are you deliberately obtuse?

3 options you list preferences.

If 1 option wins outright the result is called.

If no option has over 50% then..

The option with the lowest amount of votes has their second choices redistributed.

If anything it favours Brexit.

Hofuckingho · 16/12/2018 12:22

What? Then have another one, so it's the best of three? It's a ridiculous idea.

bellinisurge · 16/12/2018 12:22

Here's one for all the "WTO'll be fine". I'd rather have no PV than give people the option to vote for this.

SleightOfMind · 16/12/2018 12:23

Voluntarily leaving with no deal means violating an international peace treaty ratified by the UN.

No serious government would ask their electorate to vote to break international law There is full cross party agreement in both houses that No Deal is not an option.

The only reason people are talking about it being on the ballot is because of a tiny but very vocal group of extremists, who are skewing the discussion wildly away from the centre.

These extremists are fuelling so much resentment that MPs are terrified of becoming the next Jo Cox and are pretending to go along with the fiction that No Deal is a rational option.

In reality, it would be madness and they all know it.

The rest of us are not subject to death threats and should stand up for reality and refuse to pretend No Deal is possible.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/12/2018 12:28

Moussemoose

If I am being obtuse then you are being willfully blind to the options, put forward and the implications of putting forward a three way vote on this.

At the risk of 'splaining' (whatever you want to put in front of it) it will split the brexit vote giving the remain vote a large marjority.