to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

[brizzledrizzle]

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

The "It's plucky Britain v the EU" bullshit is what has been sold to people by the press for 40 years.

We were (still are) in it and a powerful influence to boot. After leaving, it really will be Britain vs the EU.

Lots of bots on this thread, as there are on all Brexit threads. Russia really want us to leave the EU.

Leave voters: duped by Putin.

I'm not sure it is a good idea but I think it may well be the least worst option we have available to us.
A no deal is so damaging there is no sign it would get through Parliment if voted on, the WA has such bad numbers TM won't even put it to a vote.
If Parliment isn't able to make a decision about what to do next the people will have to. At least we could be clearer about what people were voting for this time.

I know remainers are callous, venal and lacking in humanity enough to say ‘It will be your own fault for being naughty and not doing as we tell you. Nobody cares if you all die if you’re not in the EU, if you leave the EU you deserve to die’

😂😂 Oh yes because that’s our priority, saying I told you so! What a manipulative way to twist concerns about these things happening.

I know remainers are callous, venal and lacking in humanity enough to say ‘It will be your own fault for being naughty and not doing as we tell you. Nobody cares if you all die if you’re not in the EU, if you leave the EU you deserve to die’.
Christ, I think we just hit peak Brexit.

Ridiculously stupid idea.
What do these certain Remainers, who feel shafted because people they see as beneath them, think is going to happen if we do have this undemocratic second vote and they win?
If they've not given up and conceded (like some in this thread and myself have), what do they think the militant Leavers are going to do?
It's never ending!
You have a vote. People voted. Outcome announced and that's it.
Not only that but how many people would think sod it and never vote again? The younger voters will think their voice isn't as important and the ramifications of that could be terrible.
The only vote worth having now is a general election. All this Brexit faff and incompetence is doing is allowing the press and the Conservatives to ignore the shameful poverty and mismanagement of funds which is what we should all really be concentrating on.

Yes! People were lied to in first ref and we didn't know the full story.

Yes, because this is such a mess and deadlock and everything was mid sold in the first referendum.

But, I don't think it's fair to have 3 options on the ballot- if it's TMs deal, no deal or remain then the leave vote will be split in half and remain will definitely win. This isn't fair and it should be a fair vote.

There should be two options- TMs deal or remain. That's what brexit looks like 2 years after negotiations so that's what leave voters can now understand to be what they voted for, and can decide if they still want it.

I think we really have to stay now and that the only viable way of doing it is via a second referendum. We have effectively lost the negotiations and are now discussing the nature of our surrender,

The current deal is awful and a no deal exit would be incredibly traumatic ( although not just to the uk).

We needed to play hardball when we negotiated but with a 52/48 result that was not really possible. We should have set the leave bar at 2/3 or 70%.

So, right now, the best option is a second referendum to at least confer a little legitimacy on staying.

We should have 3 options: current deal, remain or stay. The voters would number them in orders of preference and the least popular option would be discarded and the second choices of those voters used. That would most clearly indicate the current will of the people.

Not a good idea at all, damaging & undemocratic

I am frightened of another vote. I think that voters don't set aside the time to research and try to understand the very complex issues. For example the level of knowledge about the crisis that no trading agreement with the EU would actually mean.

However logically there has to be another vote for the following reasons:

1. We voted for a pig in a poke. Now we have opened that poke and more detail is known.The pig inside was a tiny unhealthy runt that will leave us poorer.

1. Before the Scottish independence referendum the Scottish Parliament produced a 600 page analysis explaining in a balanced what what leaving would mean. We had no such detail until after the vote. It's just bizarre. People need a Chance to confirm they are happy with the road map being laid out now.

1. The people pushing for this relinquishing of membership are dodgy and have lied. Boris Johnson, David Davis, Farage,Rees Mogg, Redwood - do we have faith in them? We were told this would be the easiest trade deal in human history and that we'd be better off. We need more honest advice and leadership.

1. The government's impact assessments show we will be financially worse off on any of the possible arrangements. Very worryingly the government initially denied these studies existed and had to be forced to disclose them. That is secretive, weird and worrying. We need a more informed consensus.

1. It is absolutely clear that both Aaron Banks and the American multi billionaire Mercers pumped millions into the campaigning to pursue their own profiteering agendas. This is wrong. It dirties the 2016 process. As does the Russian social media intervening. We need a cleaner confirmation.

Overall the country and Parliament are divided. For a detrimental economic change this huge we need to check there is consensus and certainty.

Current deal. No deal exit or stay!

Someone says we should have a second ref because Leave lied and broke the law. (This is true.)
Someone else says Remain lied too (not so true), so we shouldn’t have another one.

How can the result of a referendum based on (possible) lies from both sides be taken seriously? More importantly, how could any credible democracy allow such a referendum to take place?

If we have another vote, it must be properly conducted, fact checked and required to be binding.

No

Agree with what Ken Clarke says on he matter. I voted remain

I am not sure we would vote to remain now I think for many they just want it done with

lonelyplanetmum MP’s didn’t understand the complexities of the EU when they voted to support having a Referendum that Cameron had made clear the outcome would be stood by that was there job to and they fucked it up

The public vote on feeling and their own experiences this is how politics has always worked propaganda lies and manipulation is nothing new just there are different ways to go about it now

For those who think a second referendum would be undemocratic. It's not undemocratic to hold another vote once we actually know what we are voting for.

Sadly, the issue is so divisive and has been managed so poorly that, as one commentator said, ""not even Brexit is going to cure Brexit".

I'm an ardent Remainer but I'm not convinced that a second referendum is a good idea.

First because I don't think many people have changed their minds about how they would vote. To be a Leaver has become a, cultural identifier, a social marker, which in many cases has nothing to do with logic or fact.

Secondly, what would happen if the outcome was 52% remain and 48% leave? It would hardly solve anything definitely would it?

Having said all of that, I am not sure what is the best way forward through this current impasse. Perhaps a cross party working committee of MPs to come up with the best compromise they can? This would involve extending Article 50.

I think a second vote would still lead to a leave vote sadly. Judging by some of the bile about the EU that I have been reading on here recently, and of course various politicians (Dominic Raab ) are doing their best to lie and manipulate public opinion, aided and abetted by some papers. I say papers,

I would rather Brexit were overturned by parliament.

Realistically the current deal is rubbish and no deal has the potential to be catastrophic; it may not be but no sane government would roll the dice.

Logically, now, remaining is the only option so the choice is a second referendum or just deciding to remain without consulting the people again. I think the former is the lesser of two evils.

There will continue to be protests from ardent leavers and a toxic atmosphere for a while but we are where we are.

Enthusia MP’s voted** for the Referendum carried by a majority of Tories trying to address a huge Long term schism in the Tory party. The best interests of the country were not the number 1 priority, the internal Tory divisions were. And guess what the Tories are still acutely divided!

@SonEtLumiere it's difficult to point anyone out from the Conservatives who isn't incompetent.

Firstly, Cameron agreed a vote. He and his advisers clearly didn't think that Leave would win. There seems to have been nothing put in place, no forward planning, no next steps, no contingency for if Leave won. So, he slinks off to his shed and dumps the next leader in it.

May, and I've met her, couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. She has linked our countries politics with what is effectively a party in the DUP who turned a blind eye to sectarian violence and who are so backward regards modern ways that it's embarrassing. She told the electorate that if she didn't get a majority in the election last year she would resign. She lied.

European MEPs have no respect for her or our country and frankly, that alone would make me reconsider staying in the EU.

Then we have the no confidence lot- all happy to belittle their leader as useless, not so great at explaining how they'd be any better.

I genuinely think that whilst some aspects of EU membership are worth keeping, and that's why I voted remain, I think the way they've behaved over Article 50 has been abhorrent. Instead of behaving respectfully and giving people a reason to stay, they have bullied us and are trying to ensure they can keep us under their control for their own gain even after the 2 year transition. If anything, Leaver's point of "what is actually in it for us regards EU membership" is being proven. Juncker is an abhorrent little man who doesn't come out of this looking good either.

I’d love a second referendum

But people are missing the point - there simply isn’t time now.....