to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

[brizzledrizzle]

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

From Opinium polling and the LSE:

About 64% of registered voters aged 18-24 went to polls but 90% of over-65s voted.

From Ashcroft polling:

73% of 18-24s voted Remain and 60% of over-65s voted Leave.

I really want a second referendum. A fair one this time. No lies.

I think if (when) Brexit is a disaster it will still be the fault of the EU.

It will everybody else's fault: politicians, Junker, Germany, Corbyn, the Irish. Everyone, but the people who voted for it.

The Good Friday agreement will not be broken, therefore ‘no deal’ is not an option. Not enough was made of the very real issue of Ireland during the Brexit campaign. Way too much of a ‘we’ll sort it out somehow’ attitude. Well actually, these last two years have shown that some things can’t just ‘be sorted out’. What a mess.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-leave-no-deal-what-happens-eu-talks-david-davis-a8460416.html

Can't believe people think this is a good result and want a no deal. Also can't believe people think mays deal is a good one. I know everyone's fed up with Brexit and feels we need to secure the deal but I personally want neither of these outcomes. It's such a critical thing we should go back and negotiate ourselves a different deal. Who cares if it takes time to get the right deal.

And yes, a second referendum with all of this now laid bare would be very much welcomed by me.

The EU made it clear that May’s red lines left only a Canada style FTA or No Deal as options.

See this is my problem. The young are complaining about the older generations ruining their future, education, travel opportunities and job opportunities. They are scared what the future is going to hold. Now they reveal they want to remain. They should have voted in the first place. Those that didn't cant complain about the affects of Brexit on them when they didn't vote. It's likely the vote result would have been very different if they had.

Moussemoose

I think people are looking for an easy solution - Brexit - when their isn't one. I think people are blaming the wrong institution- the EU - when it is our own parliament to blame.

The government, media and associated press have been blaming the EU for 40+ years.

Do you really think that 2 years of "the EU is good and if you don't believe us you are thick and racist" was really going to overturn 40+ years of propaganda?

The government has lied and blamed others for far to long to be trusted by many many people.

Sadly, I do think a 'no vote' is a vote. It quite clearly says that one values voting at nought.

Actually, I think that anyone who didn't vote in the Referendum should not be allowed to vote in the second, unless they were in prison, serving abroad or had a documented medical reason.

In fact, this could be extended to all elections. Can't be arsed to use your vote? Then you're on the bench for the next one.

People died and were imprisoned in this country to get the vote. It is a big thing and needs to be respected and temporarily withdrawing it for those who don't value it could underline just how important it is.

It is heartbreaking to realise that swathes of young people didn't vote or even turn up to spoil the paper- a political act in itself- and I don't think there is any excuse for them or anyone else.

In 2015 there were around 6 million voters aged 18-24, and in 2016 18% of the UK population was aged 65 or over - around 11.8 million.

If you’d got the 18-24 turnout up to 90% and then 73% voted Remain that still wouldn’t have been quite enough to swing the vote.

Do people still trust opinion polls after the ref and Trump? I know I don't anymore!

Since there were no exit polls then post Ref data such as the Ashcroft and Opinium polls can give an indication. Population stats are from the ONS.

Interestingly, in the Indyref turnout of 16-17 year olds was higher than the 18-24 year olds.

If you’d got the 18-24 turnout up to 90% and then 73% voted Remain that still wouldn’t have been quite enough to swing the vote.

But remainers have spent the last two years complaining about stupid people being allowed to vote.

But when people decline to vote because either they don’t know or don’t care what to vote for, you still bloody complain about that!

Non voters might be young, but that’s no guarantee they would vote remain. Non voters are also poorer and classified as coteeeslower class, which would make them far more likely to have been leave voters.

My prediction for British tv in 2020 is a remake of Auf Wiedersehen, Pet

This could be a good thing. Little unemployment in U.K. so people looking abroad for work, drop in benefit payment total as more working. Possibly a low value to £ so lucrative to work abroad. Low £ means lots of sales of cheap U.K. goods to overseas.
Swings and roundabouts.

I just wish people could look beyond the end of their noses. Stop bleat about what happens in 2019, imagine its 2029, U.K. has built huge exchange of goods and services with India, China, S America whilst EU is swamped by uncontrolled immigration, infighting and it's few winners - Germany, Switzwerland and many losers , Italy, Portugal .........
Bottom line, amongst all the flapping is we don't know if it's a good idea to Leave or not, long term. Imv Brits are pretty imaginative and feisty people and we can regain long lost pride and confidence and make it a success.

Oh god here we go,harking back to the war and empire.

You do realise the gov elected by your feisty imaginative nation are incapable of sorting this mess- for a reason( both options are shite). The constitution isn't working,a second referendum is fast becoming the only solution.

It isn't Joe Public remainders stopping a solution.

Whilst a lot of people didnt know what they were voting for, many intelligent well informed people did.
Reasons my dad gave...undemocratic, too much power to Brussels, wants a hard border to stem immigration, is scared of us ending up like Greece etc...all valid points.

I'm remain btw.

My dad has a phd in biochemistry so id say he bucks the stereotype of the 'stupid' leave voter.

malificent7 if your dad voted against the EU because it is undemocratic he can't be that clever. Or perhaps he is just ill Informed?

The EU is a democratic institution, it is different to the U.K. but democratic nonetheless.

But when people decline to vote because either they don’t know or don’t care what to vote for, you still bloody complain about that!

Where did I say I was complaining? I was answering someone’s point.

And nor do you know why people didn’t vote - can be a range of reasons like not registered, registered at one location but residing elsewhere temporarily, not politically engaged, don’t care either way about the EU, question too complex, etc as well as can’t be arsed to vote.

Non voters might be young, but that’s no guarantee they would vote remain. Non voters are also poorer and classified as coteeeslower class, which would make them far more likely to have been leave voters.

For the 18-24s I was extrapolating the existing data, and previous research from 2010 on non-voters show that younger non-voters were less concerned with leaving the EU than older voters. In fact, the EU issue was less important to non-voters anyway, who showed greater relative concern for the economy, jobs, and tackling poverty.

I know you like to trumpet class as the marker of Remain vs Leave, but you always ignore the fact that the Es, the wealthy pensioners with no jobs or mortgages to worry about, had a strong Leave vote, and have been overwhelming shown that a large financial hit is worth it for leaving the EU.

The EU is a democratic institution, it is different to the U.K. but democratic nonetheless.

Yes this. With bells on. And Brussels is just the headquarters of the EU civil service and does not have power. The member states have power and a vote. The UK is a member state.

We would only end up like Greece if our own finances were in a similar dire state in the first place.

It is clear that in this country a lot of people will always read rubbish newspapers and hate “Brussels”. Being part of the EU necessitates a change in culture which I don’t think the majority of people in this country understand or want to understand.

The real criminals are the press barons IMO.

And so we will “Brexit”.

Aren’t we lucky. Bring on our long awaited “freedom”.

No, our country looks weak and others will take advantage now.
May is a waste of space, I hope she goes by the end of it.

The EU is too close to the final push of globalism. We don't get to vote on any of their decisions and we don't get to vote any of the people who decide in. They affect everything too from the watt of your bulb, to your hoover.
Democracy doesn't fully exist if we are in the EU and this process has shown even more proof. We may get to choose who is the face of our Government occasionally but we don't get to vote in the big balls in Brussels.