to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

[brizzledrizzle]

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

Who’s making excuses for far right views?

@SilverDoe

The posters who are staying we can't have another referendum because it will act as a recruiting tool for the far right. People move to the far right because they support the far right. The far right recruiting tool will be racist anti immigrant shite and that won't work on people who aren't racist, in fact you would think the louder the racism got the less they would appeal to people who aren't racist in the first place.

Ah yes I see, makes sense thank you :)

Yeah that’s a really weird logical leap to disregard a second referendum over.

I think another referendum would only make things worse. In 2016 people voted who hadn't voted in years as it was their chance to speak out. To then possibly overturn their vote would cause so much bad feeling and inevitably civil unrest.

I live in the suburbs of Liverpool and among the people I know, it was around 50/50 leave or remain.
My db worked in some of the deprived areas of the city - where people use food banks, payday loans, and regularly sell items at Cash Converters etc - and nearly everyone he spoke to voted leave.
There is a real disconnect between Westminster and the poor of this country. I don't know what the answer is but I don't think another referendum will help.

Like it or not - and I don't like it. A large group of people voted Brexit because they wanted change. They wanted change because of austerity and the problems it has caused.

I think people are looking for an easy solution - Brexit - when their isn't one. I think people are blaming the wrong institution- the EU - when it is our own parliament to blame.

However, we can't just ignore those feelings not matter how illogical they are and no matter how frustrated we become.

Sometimes you have to fight by listening. Fighting fire with fire doesn't always work. I have faith in education and conversation. That's why I keep on posting the same posts about democracy again and again.

However, I am prepared to accept, looking around at the moment, that I might just be wrong.

I hate this argument that all leavers are stupid and racist. My 70 year old father voted leave. He is extremely intelligent, well informed and weighed up all the arguments. When questioned about his vote he still doesn't regret it and says he feels it is right for future generations, we can have more freedom, decide our own future. He remembers when we weren't in the EU before. However, his view was somewhat ruined for me when he then said we have too many immigrants here. My mum then supported this and that's the reason she voted leave too.

I know others who did seem to purely vote based on immigration without understanding what would happen if we left.

I personally think people were lied to who voted leave, some are stupid and raciest and voted without understanding the whole picture. They were taken in by keeping our sovereignty argument and the bus with how much we pay the EU. But I expect stupid and misinformed people also voted remain.

Silly to vote again, even more stupid the people saying we know more facts now, when we vote for parties we never actually know the facts do we, we can’t half way through say ‘let’s do it again because we now know conservatives will screw over the disabled’

A vote is a vote and you should stick by it.

No vote you ever do will be without some type of consequence anyway

People's voices have not been listened to, this is 100% right

Nearly 35% of the electorate voted to Remain and 28% didn't vote at all - nearly 63% in total. If 63% of the electorate were unhappy with the outcome of the referendum or wanted a second referendum then why aren't they making more of a fuss? Surely that many unhappy people would be making much more noise than appears to be the case? I can only conclude that the majority of the electorate don't want a second referendum.

Totally agree with moose I think many people voted leave as they were dissatisfied with not being listened to and the government at that time. They wanted change.

A million people marched through London to support PV. Did you miss that?

When we vote in an election, the parties have published manifestos and can therefore be held to account at subsequent elections if the promises turn out to be utter claptrap (think about the Liberal Democrats and their manifesto claims about student loans - they were completely decimated at the next election once everyone realised it was bollocks). The trouble with this referendum is we were lied to (definitely by Leave side, potentially by both sides to some degree) and now we have no opportunity to hold those claims to account.

No KenDodd I’d still vote leave. I’m not standing with any of the organisations you’ve listed but your moral blackmail doesn’t work on me.

@1981m

My grandparents also voted Leave - not because they’re racists - they’ve lived and travelled all over the world - but because they voted to join the EEC in the first place and we’re disappointed in the result.

I really don’t understand the demonisation of people on either side. Never before have I seen this in politics. It was perfectly possible years ago for Conservative voters and Labour voters to have a discussion without name-calling and telling each other they’re awful human beings. It’s ultimately a question of values, and everyone’s values are different.

Personally I wouldn’t respect the result of the second referendum of no one respects the result of the first.

Why is it moral blackmail?

All those groups listed did support Brexit.

If you are on the Brexit bus you are sitting next to those people.

Why would groups as unpleasant and anti democratic as that support something? At the very, very least it should give you pause for thought.

I am on the left, when I look at the Lexitiers it certainly makes me glad I didn't vote in a way which would support them and give them succour and comfort.

A million people marched through London to support PV. Did you miss that?

I think the figure was 700,000 and a significant number of the protesters were EU citizens waving EU flags - who were not eligible to vote. The Brexit thread running concurrently with this one was started by an (ex) British citizen who didn't vote because she had been living in another EU country for years and had taken on the citizenship of that country.

IAteMyGrandma because Brexit is so much more than values.

Look at the groups that support Brexit listed below. Listen to the people on the left who support Brexit.

These groups want, actively want, social upheaval. They want violence on the NI boarder. The more society suffers the more extremes people vote for. Extremism and popularism are on the rise these are dangerous forces and potentially very dangerous times.

Brexit is not about values and right and left it could very rapidly descend into right and wrong.

Do not underestimate what is at risk and do not dismiss this as Project Fear.

Clavinova are people who live, work and contribute to the British economy not allowed to protest peacefully?

The question was why are remainers not making more fuss? There have been legal challenges, marches, newspaper campaigns, petitions how much more fuss can people make and stay within the law.

I really don’t understand the demonisation of people on either side

I wonder if it's because this is about identity? I read a while ago that most of our young people see themselves as European and a significant proportion see themselves as European ahead of being British. They're having this identity as EU citizens (and the rights and freedoms that come with that) stripped from them against their will and getting a blue passport and a £7 fee to visit Europe in its place. I have heard Leavers say a similar thing, feeling they're having their identity attacked.

Personally I wouldn’t respect the result of the second referendum

How would you do that then?

But what % of the 28% who didn't vote were young voters? What was the age demographic of voters?

but because they voted to join the EEC in the first place and we’re disappointed in the result.

They didn’t vote to join the EEC. They voted to remain on the EEC.

in the EEC.

Clavinova are people who live, work and contribute to the British economy not allowed to protest peacefully?

Of course - but unless they are eligible to vote they don't get to vote in a second (or a first) referendum. I see no evidence that a majority of the eligible electorate want a second referendum.

The question was why are remainers not making more fuss? There have been legal challenges, marches, newspaper campaigns, petitions how much more fuss can people make and stay within the law

By a minority yes.

Several recent opinion polls indicate a majority want a second referendum.

YouGov poll reported in The Indy was saying 59%. That is above the margin of error for a majority.