to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

[brizzledrizzle]

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

The first referendum was in 1975, the second referendum was in 2016.

"We don't NEED a second referendum."

That was the second referendum.

Nor will I. I just mean I may have to eat less etc. Have no holidays etc.
It won't kill me. It needs to be put into context.

I just can't waste my energy on being so hostile to others.

Nothing ever stays the same. What goes down will eventually go up and visa versa.

Except that this is almost certainly going to get worse, and stay worse for a considerable amount of time, for no discernible benefit.

Ah yes, the old "I'll just shop at Lidl's and have UK holiday" idea of coping with an economic catastrophe.
Whatever keeps you happy

I just mean I may have to eat less etc. Have no holidays etc.

Oh its ok, I may starve but at least I will have my precious Brexit. Don't make me laugh.

Holidays are a luxury, eating is not.

In the event of no deal Brexit there will be a lot of people who wont be able to afford food. Or heating. Or housing. Do you get that?

It's not a joke or something to take trivially. Homelessness is already at record high levels. We dont want to make it worse

I do wonder how leave voters say that they voted leave because of the impact of EU immigration on the poor ( proved up thread to be tiny) whilst at the same time advocating a course of action which is not in the interest of any of the poorest people in the country or the poorest regions.

The Cognitive dissonance is outstanding.

This thread has become a mirror of what is going on in parliament

petty arguing and point scoring , he said ,she said , this statistic , that statistic , I am going to stamp my foot and take my toys home !

Its no point crying over spilt milk we are where we are so now need to pull together and compromise on both sides to make this work in the best way it can , it wont suit everyone as you cant keep everyone happy all of the time

Tea anyone ?

Really at 52/48 the compromise would have been a Norway style agreement.

But there has never been any compromise from leave, its their way or nothing. We have to shut up because of democracy ( the irony).

Can someone please explain to me why the 'leavers' are all so anti a second vote ? Their argument to a man all seems to be 'we voted out. It was a democratic vote and leave won - just get on with it'

If this is the argument - that leave is what the country wants - then surely they should welcome a second vote. It will reinforce all they believe to be true and give the govt the extra shove to get on with it ?

Or ... could it be that they know that now we have an idea what leave actually means - and are now immune to propaganda on busses promising the world - that in fact they will lose so heavily that the entire leave fiasco will have to be cancelled. ?

Either way - a second vote seems the only morally correct way to go. Either it will prove them right or show that it was win based in lies

Realistically, how likely do people think it is that we'll crash out with no deal? Surely parliament simply wouldn't let that happen?

@Dongdingdong , I also think Parliament and TM herself will not let this happen.
But there is more and more crazy online about how this is an ok option.
Stay away from stupid.

TBF there are more reliable statistics on this thread than are normally quoted in the House of Commons.

Can someone please explain to me why the 'leavers' are all so anti a second vote ?

Why are all the remainers so desperate for another vote ?

Best of three after the next one ?

@bellinisurge I hope you're right - but what are the viable ways in which TM/parliament could prevent a no-deal Brexit at this late stage?

If we just keep voting on the same thing, without carrying the result of the first one m, how would you get anything done ?
I would imagine The NS would be demanding another ind vote ( once in a lifetime) if you can have another, why can’t we.

Another referendum would be a way for politicians to duck responsibility for sorting out a mess of their own creation. The chances are that the results of a Yes-No referendum would be broadly the same as last time - a slim majority in favour of Leave. 3 option referenda are messy because the results can be interpreted in multiple ways. Given that we already had a Yes-No referendum on membership, the only logical Yes- No question would be May's Deal or No Deal when few people want either, so it would be boycotted. Similarly a Remain or May's Deal would be boycotted. It is a mess.

I'm not sure a second vote would be a good idea but it's nonsense to say it would be undemocratic, how is voting on something undemocratic? Although I'm a remainer, I think there's a very good chance Leave would win a 'no deal'. If the polls had moved significantly and were now saying 60/40 for Remain I think it would be positively undemocratic NOT to have another vote, there isn't the evidence that significant numbers have changed their minds though.

I can't imagine we'll be out of the EU for that long, almost 80% of young people want to Remain, when they see the damage Brexit will do they are going to be very angry, and rightly so. Our blue passports will be a visual representation of the rights that our young people have had taken from them. The Remain/Peoples Vote networks and groups are already set up, these will immediately become Rejoin groups and our young people will take us back in.

It will be a bad thing for democracy. Calling a second referendum, 'A People's Vote' is a cynical ploy. A very rough unsophisticated definition of a referendum is exactly that...a people's vote.

I feat that in may areas a second vote with a different result will quickly lead to the rise of the extreme far right-those that make Trump and Farage look like teddy bears- and before long, leaving Brexit will seem as it was a very small worry.

Many far right organisations are already going into certain areas doing the groundwork and whipping up people who may not even have voted-through inertia-in the referendum by telling them that their voice will never be heard through political channels and that violence is the only answer.

It will, I fear, be an uncontrollable situation.

@aconcertpianist

Interesting, I think the very opposite about the rise of the far racist right. It seems to me the referendum itself and Leave win have given huge boost to the far right. I follow Vote Leave on Facebook and many many posts talk about getting Brexit as just the first step, so pushing us step by step further to the right and anti immigrant. I think bining Brexit (someway) would take away power from the far right.

That may be so @KenDodd but think how much easier it will be to whip up people if they are told their vote has been brushed aside because it didn't suit 'blacks, gays, Muslims, Catholics, rich people'. It doesn't matter if some of those complaining about the vote didn't even vote-cool thinking isn't being encouraged.

The whipping up has already begun and I think many of the very far right are hoping the result will be overturned.

It is simply a red hot, ready made vehicle to push their agenda and it will be pretty easy to turn the situation into a very violent one.

I ve been reading about Mays deal, I definitely don't want the current deal on the table. It sounds atrocious in all aspects for us. We will have left but we have no power to make any decisions, the EU can pull out of the deal any time they like, they can make decisions which they greatly affect us and we have no say.

The no deal also looks atrocious too.

I want neither- I want a whole new negotiation but I think that's too late.

We absolutely should not be held in thrall to the thuggish hard-right.

Just been confirmed live that parliament will vote again 2nd week of Jan. No chance of a people's vote now as that will only leave 7-8 weeks before we leave.

The A50 deadline can be extended if required Russia and the EU would likely agree to this if it was for a second referendum.