to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

[brizzledrizzle]

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

IF there is a second referendum, it should simply be to decide on what type of Brexit, i.e. whether to accept May's deal or whether to leave without a deal.

The decision to leave was made two years ago, and isn't open for discussion.

The remainers just want a 3 way referendum, i.e. remain, May deal or no deal, so that the "leave" vote will be split two ways to give the remainers a majority. That's not democracy.

Its not arrogant to ask for reasons that are based on facts.

You don't need to give a reason why, but then you hang around the EU boards a lot for someone who never justifies any points that you make.

I want to end freedom of movement ASAP and I don’t need to give you a single reason why.

Funny, every time I've visited Europe from the UK I've had to show my passport. Every time I've come back into the UK, I've had to show my passport.

In the future I'll have to show a piece of paper too (that'll cost £10 for 3 years). It's hardly onerous is it??

a lot of working class people have watched unskilled eu migration and low skilled migrants take over their jobs

Its all a bit late now but most people just want some fairness on immigration

If this country couldnt get enough nurses for eg the employers would have to make it more attractive either by salary or conditions or a number of measures
Our trained nurses keep going to Australia for eg for better wages , status and conditions etc leaving us short but rather than raise wages for uk nurses we accept eu migrants which in turn lowers the nurses conditions , status etc and our Uk school leavers all think fuck that I am going to Uni and going to work for Alan Sugar instead

A points based system with proper UK training for trades and professions not glorified YTS or Uni for everyone

A backstop with a time limit is not a backstop and not worth the paper it's written on

Doesn't have to be a time limit - it could be another "trigger", such as the promised technological answer being successfully implemented. What the UK can't do is accept a woolly worded clause which the EU could abuse if they wanted to.

Top post, Boris. This was always the problem. We wanted everything and people don’t seem to understand that compromise is vital. David Davis was ripped apart on Question Time the other night. Arrogant and lacking in ability. Wasted nearly two years with being belligerent. Negotiation means each side has to give concessions to reach a compromise and the arch Leavers won’t.

Democracy is “one person, one vote”. It’s not an electoral system or how often we vote. Of course we can vote again and be democratic. I think there is a major concern that many belligerent leavers don’t care about the facts. Judging by the calls to Stephen Nolan last night, they don’t understand no deal and as one woman voted leave because of the amount of money spent on MEPs, you can see the problem. There is a lack of economic understanding and the length of time it gets to make trade deals.

Maybe because they didn’t expect the EU to react in such an aggressive and coercive manner?

Eh?

@billysboy

I can't think of any Leave voters I know who are against FOM who aren't racist. Proper they should all fuck off home racists, Romainians cover the streets in shit and rubbish and behave like animals, Polish people just come here to live of benefits and Bulgarians all pick pocket and steal. In fairness not all Leave voters I know are like this and I'm not claiming they are all like this I'd say more that half of Leave voters I know do speak about immigrants like this though.

Our trained nurses keep going to Australia for eg for better wages , status and conditions etc leaving us short but rather than raise wages for uk nurses we accept eu migrants which in turn lowers the nurses conditions

It's not just EU nurses we employ - most immigrant nurses are from outside the EU. What I have never understood is why the, say, Phillipino nurses don't go straight to Australia? It seems strange that UK nurses go to Oz, but Phillipino nurses don't and choose the UK instead? But yes, it's a travesty that successive UK governments over the past few decades havn't increased the number of training places for doctors and nurses in the UK. Though, the doctor's unions/professional bodies did refuse to accept increases in medical school places at one time (no doubt wanting to keep the numbers tight to keep their pay and conditions).

Remainers only want a second referendum because they didn't bother voting the first time. Too late! And after all of this, more people would rather vote leave, the state of the EU at present leaves a lot to be desired.

The working class have jobs by and large. Unemployment is low. People who want to work, can work. We have major skills shortages. No one has stopped people training for these jobs such as plumbing or care work.

I think there is a major concern that many belligerent leavers don’t care about the facts.

And a lot of belligerent remainers don't understand the point of view of the leavers and just lazily label them racist bigots without actually bothering to understand the many reasons people voted to leave, especially in the regions.

BorisBogtrotter

Why are you monitoring my posts?

The decision to leave was made two years ago, and isn't open for discussion.

That is literally not how ongoing democracy works. That is just a fact. Apart from anything else, some of the voting population is continuously dying and coming of age.

The working class have jobs by and large. Unemployment is low. People who want to work, can work. We have major skills shortages. No one has stopped people training for these jobs such as plumbing or care work.

And the remainers call the leavers thick! Posts like this show just how out of touch some remainers are.

I dont think that training has stopped for any professional career or trade , but it is my observation that a lot of school leavers do not consider these trades or professions as a desired career that they can do well and instead are led into university where they feel the career streets will be paved with gold
I think its about changing this perception to our school leavers

Ending FOM with a points based system should be a fairer way of delivering what we skills gap we need as a country , but it should go alongside a change in attitude from school leavers that not everyone needs a degree and that there are alternatives available that carry a decent status and standard of living

It would also not bias any immigration towards europe but should attract the best people from wherever they are

I'm not, but I noticed a trend.

You turn up and claim you don't have to explain your reasons for wanting immigration to stop.

Then flounce out again.

"It has to be No Deal moving forwards. May's deal pleases no-one, at least No Deal pleases some."
Nope. I'll take May's deal over no deal any day.

I’m not out of touch. We have skills shortages. Some of these skills can be learned and jobs are available. We have low unemployment. Immigration has not stopped our people progressing at all. We should be grateful that people want to work here. We just like to blame others.

We could ask health service workers to pay back some of their training costs if they leave. Many companies do this.

If you listen to any radio phone in, there are many leavers who have no interest in the economy. This means, of course, they voted leave for other reasons, but these will make many people poorer for years to come. If you are 70 plus and hark back to the British Empire, you will have different views from someone who wishes to collaborate with the EU and trade on their agreed terms. We have done well with this for 40 years. It’s wrong to suggest otherwise.

, "but it should go alongside a change in attitude from school leavers that not everyone needs a degree "

The large majority of young people don't go to University, last year it was 27% of 18 year olds attended.

A two-part vote wouldn’t split Leave voters.

Do you want to
Leave
Remain

If we leave the EU so you want
Theresa’s deal
No deal

Although I agree with the PP who said No Deal is a terrible option and it’s worrying that so many people would probably vote for it.

Nope. I'll take May's deal over no deal any day.

Me too.

You must be keeping a very close eye on me to notice a ‘trend’

FYI: I don’t post half as much as I used to on brexit threads, it’s always the same people saying the same stuff ( yes, you’re just as boring as me & never say anything different )
not that it’s any of your damn business how much I post.