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AIBU?

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Original poster

to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

695 replies

brizzledrizzle · 15/12/2018 23:00

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

OP posts:
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5
bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 07:56

Oran? "Pram "

KennDodd · 17/12/2018 08:04

I wish we would just go for a Norway+ Brexit. As Leave was not defined it gets us out of the EU so absolutely fulfilled the referendum result and if Leavers bleet about that 'not being what they voted for' then they have no right to complain if others call them stupid. Norway + might not be whatever fantasy Brexit they had in their head but it is 100% out of the EU and so 100% in line with what they voted for so they should stfu and enjoy their 'freedom'.

Norway + also gets our MEPs out of the European parliament, I think this is actually a good thing. UKIP are our biggest party in Europe and they are so damaging to the UK interests, we'd be better of without them. If we stay in the EU people will just keep electing UKIP MEPs without having a clue what they're actually doing.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 08:09

Doesn't Norway plus mean FOM? Can't see Leavers going for that.

SonEtLumiere · 17/12/2018 08:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Augusta2012 · 17/12/2018 08:14

How should Parliament proceed when on the one hand Mays Deal is rejected but Parliament can’t decide what it wants. What should she be negotiating towards?

Have you completely failed to pay attention? A time limit for the backstop. That’s the problem.

Augusta2012 · 17/12/2018 08:15

Christ. Remainers really do have a nerve calling leavers thick when they come out with that sort of shit.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 08:17

But @Augusta2012 , if there is as Leavers claim a technological solution to the NI border just around the corner what are they afraid of with the backstop? Surely it won't even be needed if the technological solution is there?

surferjet · 17/12/2018 08:18

A 2nd referendum, if it does happen, will cause more division & more chaos than not having one.
But remainers don’t care about that. as long as they get their way.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 08:19

Hi @surferjet . Remainer here. Don't want a second referendum. Just want to avoid No Deal. How about you?

N0rdicStar · 17/12/2018 08:24

But we need to see how many remainers there are now.

People were lied to and duped before. They now have a better idea and would be even more informed with a decent outline of the options before a second ref.

If there was an overwhelming better informed vote to stay I really can’t see why on earth Brexit should be pushed through regardless. Confused

billysboy · 17/12/2018 08:26

Tony Blair can do us all a favour and get back under his shell

Augusta2012 · 17/12/2018 08:29

Norway + also gets our MEPs out of the European parliament, I think this is actually a good thing. UKIP are our biggest party in Europe and they are so damaging to the UK interests, we'd be better of without them. If we stay in the EU people will just keep electing UKIP MEPs without having a clue what they're actually doing.

Fucking hell. Just when you think remainers can’t come out with anything more oppressive and dictatorial they pull a rabbit like this out of the hat.

So what you’re saying that you don’t like democracy because people have a habit of disagreeing with you. So you want them disenfranchised because they’re inconvenient.

You are literally advocating the policies of totalitarian states. What you’re suggesting is tactics only ever used by hugely oppressive regimes.

It’s fucking insane we’re in a situation where people come out with this shit thinking it’s perfectly reasonable.

I’m going to have to start recording this stuff.

BorisBogtrotter · 17/12/2018 08:31

A 2nd referendum would actually be a 3rd on the issue, and the one in 2016 was campaigned for, for many years by the leave campaign and euro sceptics. Its perfectly legitimate to have another, especially when it require such big change.

Leavers are scared they would lose, their massive push last time only got them the just over the line.

Secondly the EU has not "thrown its toys out of the pram" regarding negotiations or treated the UK badly. The problem is that the UK basically wants a deal where it gets all of the benefits of EU membership, with none of the duties involved in that, whilst also getting to sign trade deals with the rest of the world.

The EU has allowed the UK a huge number of concessions, but anything other than the above is not good enough for leavers.

But it was never on offer.

Augusta2012 · 17/12/2018 08:33

But @Augusta2012 , if there is as Leavers claim a technological solution to the NI border just around the corner what are they afraid of with the backstop? Surely it won't even be needed if the technological solution is there?

Because a time unlimited backstop completely removes the incentive for the EU to agree to an electronic border. Why on earth would they set the UK free when they could keep us trapped and subordinate to them forever.

Again, have you not been paying attention? This is basic stuff. Remain really do have a nerve calling Leavers thick when they need to be spoon fed basic facts themselves.

BorisBogtrotter · 17/12/2018 08:34

Strawman Augusta,#

The Norway model was suggested by the leave campaign and by Gove recently.

They know it comes with a lack of representation in the EU parliament, but then as UKIP have the worst record of attendence, and rarely turn up to vote on anything, and the Tories sit with Orban et al, we are probably better off not being represented by reactionary and useless politicians.

billysboy · 17/12/2018 08:34

FOM needs to end without anyone being called rascist

BorisBogtrotter · 17/12/2018 08:35

"Because a time unlimited backstop completely removes the incentive for the EU to agree to an electronic border. Why on earth would they set the UK free when they could keep us trapped and subordinate to them forever."

Why would the EU want to "trap" the UK? The language of conquest that you use is hyperbolic and ridiculous.

Your arguments really are crap.

BorisBogtrotter · 17/12/2018 08:36

"FOM needs to end without anyone being called rascist"

Then people need to give accurate and factual reasons for wanting it to end, rather than nonsense which has been proven repeatedly to be incorrect.

Kazzyhoward · 17/12/2018 08:37

if there is as Leavers claim a technological solution to the NI border just around the corner what are they afraid of with the backstop? Surely it won't even be needed if the technological solution is there?

Which is exactly why May wants the EU to commit to removing the backstop. As it stands, the EU has the power to keep the backstop indefinitely, regardless of what happens. That's clearly a ridiculous situation - there needs to be very specific/detailed agreement as to how long the backstop will exist and specific/detailed agreement as to the circumstances for it being kept or being scrapped. It's not at all unreasonable to reject the EU's "woolly" wording.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 08:37

@Augusta2012 , like I said before, this has moved on from Remain/Leave 2016 arguments. The priority now is avoiding No Deal.
I'll take TM WA if that avoids No Deal . I voted Remain. still think I was right but my view didn't prevail. Frankly, I will take any version of Leave that avoids No Deal.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 08:38

@Kazzyhoward the backstop must stay until a technological solution is found. Why is that woolly?

surferjet · 17/12/2018 08:39

Then people need to give accurate and factual reasons for wanting it to end

See, it’s this arrogance that really pisses people off.
I want to end freedom of movement ASAP and I don’t need to give you a single reason why.

MagnificentSevenHeaven · 17/12/2018 08:40

Given that Remainers have been calling Leavers Thick, Uneducated, Facist, Racist, Stupid - what do you think will happen if you decide their opinion wasn't valid?

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a nice, quiet walk through London with some placards....

It has to be No Deal moving forwards. May's deal pleases no-one, at least No Deal pleases some.

BorisBogtrotter · 17/12/2018 08:40

"As it stands, the EU has the power to keep the backstop indefinitely, regardless of what happens"

In accurate portrayl of the situation, both sides need to agree to the end of the W.A backstop arrangements, which will be done when the trade agreement is concluded. What this means is that neither side can pull the plug on the deal to the other's detriment.

Childrenofthesun · 17/12/2018 08:40

A backstop with a time limit is not a backstop and not worth the paper it's written on, given that the UK government cannot be trusted to do as it says. We agreed in negotiations in December 2017 that we wouldn't put a hard border in Northern Ireland, then DD/TM came straight back home and started saying they'd signed an agreement to that but they didn't have to do it if they didn't want to. No wonder the EU feel they need something concrete.

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