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AIBU?

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Original poster

to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

695 replies

brizzledrizzle · 15/12/2018 23:00

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one. Part of me thinks it's a good idea, part of me thinks that the country has already voted and can't afford another referendum.

OP posts:
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5
DuckBillTrill · 16/12/2018 21:15

Its blatent political manipulation to have another vote. We had the vote. The result was majority Leave. Now the government must get the best deal to respect that result. We could still trade with Europe etc etc just like we always have, we just don't have to have a political union with them!

They government wasted 2.5 years not doing a deal. Because they are incompetent and don't have the political will to do it. I think they've got a bloody cheek to ask for another vote.

Clavinova · 16/12/2018 21:30

to wonder if a second referendum is a good idea?

The Sunday Times are running a headline that the PM's team are planning one

And the Guardian are running a headline:
Party activists pile pressure on Corbyn to back second vote

Labour activists who want to ditch Brexit because they believe it will make it impossible for the party to implement a left wing manifesto have launched a fresh campaign for a second referendum

The move puts Jeremy Corbyn under increasing pressure to drop his resistance to a new public vote

The campaign is being run by young left wing Labour activists headed by Michael Chessum, a former member of the steering committee of the pro-Corbyn grassroots movement Momentum

That's one good reason not to have a second referendum.

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 21:49

We had the vote.

Because that is how democracy works. We have a vote and that's that.

Referenda in the U.K. are advisory. Multiple votes are taken as legislation moves through parliament.

The concept of 'a vote' being the one and only vote is ludicrous.

catx1606 · 16/12/2018 22:02

I voted leave and I would be happy to have another vote. I don't know which side would win. There is no guarantee that the youngsters who are now old enough to vote will vote remain. It's quite arrogant to assume that. If remain won, I would accept it. I wouldn't be happy but that's how democracy works. If leave won, I would expect the same attitude from the remain side.

roastpotatoesrule · 16/12/2018 22:05

I think it's a good idea. Something so monumental needs more certainty than one very close referendum based on scant facts and lies

Childrenofthesun · 16/12/2018 22:15

We could still trade with Europe etc etc just like we always have, we just don't have to have a political union with them!

Easily done by staying in the CU/SM, the so-called Norway + option. Norway was talked about constantly during the leave campaign so it would have been easy to go for that - it fulfills the narrow margin of the leave win but is palatable to most remain voters.

Of course, instead of going for that, TM and her government drew their nonsensical red lines and have spent 2.5 years feeding the public BS about no deal being better than a bad deal. Having finally realised that no-deal is very very much worse than a year kind of deal, they are all (with the exception of the ERG disaster-capitalists or the seriously mentally deficient) furiously back-pedallling.

There is probably consensus in Parliament for Norway +. The problem is how to persuade the masses to go for it after all the crap you've fed them.

Childrenofthesun · 16/12/2018 22:16

any kind of deal

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/12/2018 22:25

Moussemoose

Referenda in the U.K. are advisory.

Yes we know

Multiple votes are taken as legislation moves through parliament.

and this moved through parliament and all those votes and was ratified.

Moussemoose · 16/12/2018 22:39

That's right the votes were ratified.

We vote on legislation multiple times in the U.K. so another advisory referendum is legal and constitutional.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/12/2018 22:44

Moussemoose

I have never argued that another advisory referendum wouldn't be legal and constitutional.

I am pointing out that saying AV is going to be used is incorrect.

Menarefrommarsitwouldseem · 16/12/2018 23:00

I've not read through the whole thread

However discussing this with my colleagues and family who voted remain has made clear to me that if a second referendum was to happen. Leave would win again, by a bigger majority.
I would say out of everyone I've spoke to only 5% ish of remain voters said they would vote again.
Actually 2 said they would vote again and vote leave.

The people who voted leave have all said they would vote the same way again. Without hesitation.

bumbleymummy · 17/12/2018 00:34

Why would anyone vote leave now after voting remain previously? How does leaving all of a sudden look like the better option?

Augusta2012 · 17/12/2018 00:54

Why would anyone vote leave now after voting remain previously? How does leaving all of a sudden look like the better option?

Maybe because they didn’t expect the EU to react in such an aggressive and coercive manner?

gluteustothemaximus · 17/12/2018 01:09

We had a contact in Norway (before business went tits up after Brexit vote), who said their model was far from perfect.

They pay millions in, but have no say. They follow the rules, they have no say in them.

They are part of the single market, and that includes freedom of movement.

They are not part of the customs union. Sending stuff there is more admin, more delays.

Norway is a very wealthy country though.

So, the Norway model can’t work as we’d still be paying millions (none for NHS), freedom of movement would stay (an issue for lots of leavers), we’d have to follow the EU rules without any say (a huge problem for leavers).

SilverDoe · 17/12/2018 02:40

Aggressive manner?! You are either from a propaganda mill or you are deluded. They have not been bulking us at all . If anything they have been very accommodating.

But, if you expect a trade group to let a member leave and negotiate better terms than the actual members - that’s obviously never going to happen. Please give one solid example of “bullying” from the EU negotiators?

watchmefly · 17/12/2018 02:55

Yes, of course.

Now that we have more detail about how the various scenarios will impact us, we should ratify the decision. Or not.

N0rdicStar · 17/12/2018 06:42

Loving the way May can shift the date MPs vote so she can win but the British people can't have another day to vote on the same thing they were previously lied to about and not given all the information.

DarienGap · 17/12/2018 06:55

Does anyone know when exactly it will be known if no deal is going to happen?
I know that A50 can be rescinded at any point but is there likely to be an announcement that the UK is crashing out beforehand?

wondering1101 · 17/12/2018 06:57

Please give one solid example of “bullying” from the EU negotiators?

I agree that there has been no bullying.

It is so depressing that we are in thrall to our right wing press and that despite the hellish last 2.5 years, people are still, and with renewed fervour, spouting nonsense about the EU being difficult / uncompromising etc.. Said to me the other day by someone I never would have expected to hear that from. We didn’t take the conversation further, but I was thinking thanks for helping to throw us all under the bus. She doesn’t like large bureaucratic organisations she said. Well that large bureaucratic organisation has played a key role in our prosperity and peace. It’s hard not to feel angry.

Have a hard time not feeling upset and resentful at the moment, as our country limps through yet more chaos, and our future hangs in the balance. And is apparently in the hands of unpleasant Tory right wingers.

Am trying not to think about it Sad.

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 06:59

I think by "bullying " the meaning is "not giving into everything I want". I've met people who think like that. And toddlers who have acted like that.

Deadbudgie · 17/12/2018 07:03

Darian. A no deal situation will be known as soon as mps reject maysdeal and the EU confirm they are throwing their toys out the pram and refuse any more negotiations.

Mouse, presumably a second referendum would also be advisory so if we vote leave again you will keep rolling out the same arguments but if remain won you would see this would also have no binding effect to stay. In which case why do we need a. Second vote? We might as well just use opinion polls

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 07:13

A second referendum is a terrible idea if it offers No Deal as an option. Irresponsible and stupid.

Childrenofthesun · 17/12/2018 07:42

Oh dear, the expectation by some that the world's biggest and most powerful trading bloc should roll over and do whatever little Britain wants because, y'know, we're British explains a lot.

I don't think no deal will happen. I think May would do a last minute revoke ahead of that.

recently · 17/12/2018 07:50

the EU confirm they are throwing their toys out the pram and refuse any more negotiations.
A deal has already been negotiated and agreed by May. Why should they go through it all again? Brexit will cost EU countries millions and they didn't even want it. How is that fair? If the boot was on the other foot and say, France was trying to leave you can bet your life the UK would be kicking up a fuss about the cost and insisting they stick to the rules!

bellinisurge · 17/12/2018 07:55

Why is refusing to negotiate further after negotiations are concluded "throwing your teddy out of the Oran".
Have none of you ever dealt with petulant toddlers? Since when has renegotiating an agreed position ever been an acceptable approach?