To think military families should be offered extra funded childcare provisions?

[PFB1]

I am a military wife and although being a soldier is a choice and in my opinion, you're not automatically owed anything for making that choice, I really feel as though child care is such an issue for military spouses.

The problem is, we move frequently, which makes it harder for spouses to have a successful career. We often live hundreds of miles from family so we have no offers of free childcare there, the communities we live in are so transient. Our friends move away, new people arrive. When a friendship reaches the point where you might be comfortable asking for help with childcare, it's likely one of you will end up being posted miles away.

On top of these issues, your spouse can be sent away at a moments notice for anything up to 9 months.

I think so many military spouses underachieve from a career point of view because it feels like there are just so many hurdles in your way. I think extra funded childcare for military families would be a wonderful idea to give spouses more opportunities to succeed.

I appreciate childcare is a touchy subject and difficult for many families to afford/juggle. I just think it would be a huge help to service families to have some additional support in that area.

I'd love to try to contact relevant organisations to discuss whether this is something we could propose but I firstly wanted to get an idea of if the general public would be unhappy about this.

Bouledeneige hits the nail on the head with life just being unfair.

Unfortunately there does seem to be a growing trend of entitlement. My life is more difficult than the average person for this reason, therefore I deserve this from the state at taxpayers expense.

I have a friend who’s husband is in the military and she gets quite a lot already to be fair .
Everything at her finger tips , doesn’t even have to leave base most days if she doesn’t want to and they have great resources for kids/babies .

Yes our husbands (or wives) choose to join the army, but thank god they did - imagine if we had no one!

Substitite "join the army" for any number of other professions.

Like I said my brother did the moving about, his wife and family stayed in one place so there must be choices made.

Absolutely not. For all the reasons above.

I'm a civilian living in an area close to two military bases. Locals here find it extremely hard to find part time work already due to military wives scooping up all the prime school hours jobs. And yes I'm bitter, they generally don't need that extra income due to the spouse being paid very generously imo!

Nope. I've been a military wife for almost 25 years and I strongly disagree with this. I'll probably get flamed but the sense of entitlement is rapidly growing amongst some military wives and it really annoys me.

I chose to marry DH and we chose to have children. I couldn't go back to my chosen career because pregnancy made me disabled, however I never struggled to find a job and I never struggled to find childcare when we lived on camp and when we lived in our own house. I unfortunately had to give up work when DS2 was 11 because I became too ill.

Plenty of military wives work and many of them have professional careers. We are not a unique breed where we live away from family support anymore that's becoming more and more common. If you want to live where you grew up take advantage of the Forces Help to Buy Scheme, go Married Unaccompanied and your husband can claim home to duty allowance.

We aren't hard done by in the greater scheme of things and if you want to work you can.

Curses I wrote a long post and it was eaten.!

There is plenty of informal and formal childcare available, which sometimes includes subsidised nurseries. Ther's also a completely different attitude to friendship - when you're all in the same boat you do favours (even big ones) for people without thinking about one for one reciprocation, rather the general idea of 'paying it forward' beeuse you never know who you're going to need to ask for what, nor whether it'll be immediately after you've arrived somewhere or just as you're about to leave.

There are also welfare and family service who can help with a surprising amount of stuff. Plus of course additional provision under the Admissions Code so hen you're moving your Dc for the nth time tried the main rounds you don't always get the sink school 3 bus rides away. Also, these days you don't get put to the back of NHS waiting lists each time you move, which helps enormously if one of your DC needs medical intervention/support.

And the reason numbers in the military is dealing is deliberate downsizing. Neither recruitment nor retention are particularly difficult right now (though not as buoyant as a few years ago)

YABU

The military pays well because of the difficulties in the lifestyle.

Plenty of other careers (nursing, doctors, paramedics, fire fighters, police, supermarket workers, delivery drivers, taxi drivers, bus and train drivers, bar staff etc etc) struggle to find and pay for childcare around their shifts. Even more so if they’re a single parent or their partner works away or also works shifts. Why is the military the only ones deserving of extra help?

I would object, where would you be suggesting this money comes from? It would have to come from a vulnerable group. Use a child minder like everyone else.

No.

I’m a care leaver with a hideous family who (even if they lived close by) couldn’t be left alone with a child. I also moved for DH’s job. I have to get on with it.

SIL on other hand has husband in Navy. Their children had private school fees paid for them by the State (us!) because apparently they are often “redeployed”. In reality, he deliberately requested 6 months up the road once in 10+ years to justify claiming for private school fees. It’s MPs expenses all over again. This was 5 years ago, maybe the system’s been overhauled since, but I do think (based on DH’s family who are all military), they are actually very well provided for.

I do know a number of military wives who found it virtually impossible to hold down anything approaching a career when their children were small

Most managed a job when the children were at school, but generally in admin, hospitality or retail

But as others have said a lot of this happens on civvie street as well

Subsidised creches on bases might well be an answer...

And not everyone knows what they are in for...because its not really spoken about, or you think it can't be that bad because other people manage or they join up after marriage

We didn't pay rent as this was covered by the military. Please tell me you don't really think that? If this is true, tell me how you managed this, and we'll be claiming the rent we paid for an MQ back, as will all the rest of HM Forces.

The rent will have come straight from the serving spouses pay packet, along with CILOCT.

I'm an ex military wife in that my dh retired when mandated by his rank. The only time I ever followed him was when he was given a second appointment overseas right after the first one, so I resigned, took my son out of school, let the house and moved.

Being RN meant that we thought his career would be based around one port, and it was, so we bought near there, and when he had jobs in and around London, I stayed put and we weekended. The second Brussels job meant either my career or my marriage had to give, so I chose to keep my marriage.

Dh was away for a lot of ds's first decade. I coped with the use of a nursery, then he went to prep as it was the only way I could get wrap around care. When ds was 5, my Mum retired and moved down to be near my db and I, and if ds was ill, she would, if she had nothing else planned, help out, but it was by no means guaranteed. I dealt with a lot of this by changing from full time to a 3 day a week job share after maternity leave, so the strain was less. I then did my PGCE when ds was 5 and in school full time.

Yes, it can be hard, and I think it can be worse when the serving spouse is away, as there is sod all chance of them getting back mid week to help out, and I disagree that you know what you are taking on when you marry someone in the Forces. I am also a military child, sister, etc, but even having grown up with my Dad serving, and my Mum coping with my brother and I, it is different.

Again, another don’t agree here.

I was shocked when my RAF Officer friend told me his kids are likely to go to boarding school at 11 as the RAF pay for a good portion. It’s a life he chose and he chose to have children too. It’s not a settled one but he knew that before.

Isn't this the same argument in relation to other careers, such as hospital staff having to pay to park at the hospital? Perhaps if military families receive free/subsidised childcare then all hospital staff (even cleaners and catering staff) should be able to park for free even though no one forced them into those professions/jobs?

I live in a town with a fairly significant military presence. What I've noticed is that there actually seems to be quite a few grandmothers around helping out.

It's more common today than ever to be living away from family. I can count on one hand the number of times mine and DP's families have babysat for us in 3.5 years. Family assistance has enabled our siblings to work, I don't have that free/v cheap childcare, I just accept that's the situation because we moved away for cheaper rent.

Asmuchuse This was 5 years ago, maybe the system’s been overhauled since There are very strict rules on eligibility for CEA, and there have been court martials for false claims within recent years. The system was overhauled back in the late 80s/early 90s as it had been abused, and the family has to be mobile as a condition of getting CEA. No longer can you sit in your own house, not move with the serving spouse, and get help with school fees. It is not worth risking your career and pension by lying.

The process is very tough, as it should be, and you are strongly encouraged to look at state boarding provision as the cheapest option first (regardless of whether that provision is actually any good!).

No I don't agree. Your entitled attitude seems to be a trend. Are you living in a bubble op? Are you not aware of the amount of families in the UK who are in poverty due to UC and having to use food banks on a weekly basis? Where do you propose this money comes from?

I despair at this grabby, I deserve this that and the other attitude.

AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo I am shocked that CEA is continuing to be claimed for 10 years without a move. How the hell are they managing this without a Mobility Cert? Everyone else fills in a Mobility Cert application every 2 to 3 years as well as on top of that at certain points on their child education, serving persons career points and any change in service/deployment/postings. It's designed to ensure such allowances are not claimed when unnecessary.
It's a long winded process but putting any claim through is impossible without this cert being signed off up the ranks and being audited eveeyb12/18 months. The computer system simply does not process the claim without this cert veingbsigned off by 3 or 4 other people up the ranks. It's a right ball ache of a system to get signed off (takes alot of chasing the relevant people- usually takes weeks to do) and it seems to come around very quickly but it is designed to stop people exactly as you describe. I am amazed anyone has found a way around it plus all the audits surrounding CEA.
There have been service personnel taken court and made to pay back fraudulent claims alrhough it is rare these days as physically putting though a claim now on the computer just does not activate until so many people sign it off at various stages.
There is also a phone number to report people you believe may be claiming CEA fraudulently.

Yanbu

Firstly re education. Children can go back 6 months every move they have. Forces children( I was one )move multiple times.

Forces children don’t get all private fees paid just some. Fees are £££££ so there will considerable outlay on often small salaries. Non officers and even officers aren’t on amazing salaries. Hence most forces families not using private schools.

When I was a child I got zero support yet my education was ruined. I suffered continual upheaval, worry about my dad and witnessed my often lonely mum sacrificing her career to keep the family together.

Frankly I think its a disgrace how little support forces families get. We children don’t choose it. There should be more support in schools for every forces child:-tutoring;somebody overseeing progress between schools;mental health support for all( in school and at home)and yes support re childcare.

Forces wives often have careers destroyed which has long term impact on pensions. There is the loneliness, constant heaval, isolation, money issues...

And re the comment regarding those living in poverty. The military are crying out for staff in 100s of sectors. If it’s so rosy sign up.No thought not. We are going to have issues soon re getting the military we need. It is incredibly hard for any family to survive on one salary.

We need the military as much now as ever. It will be ever changing in need but the need is still there. Maybe some posters this Christmas might like to think of the child in yet another crappy new forces quarter, missing and worrying about a parent stressing about walking into yet another new school starting from scratch again. Maybe begrudging his/ her mother a bit of support re childcare whilst their loved ones are keeping you safe may then seem a tad unkind.

Well speaking as another sometime 'trailing spouse' as my husband's employer used to so charmingly put it, I'm not so sure. I spent 15 years trying to hold on to a career thousands of miles from family and wasn't offered anything.
Not military, but one of loads of other careers which disrupt family life.
Sorry to sound harsh.

And if you're a naval
Officer round these parts (where we live) then you get subsidised boarding at the local private school. Even if you remain based here. Now that's not fair!

@scaryteacher I should clarify we were US navy. Part of H's income included rent to cover the property we were living in when based overseas. However as a ex military wife I'm well aware of the job difficulty situation when you choose to trail.

But as many PP have said - the job is a choice and is better paid than other civvy jobs. My H was not high rank by any means. But we were financially comfortable and leaving meant a big financial drop.

myselfonashelf I agree with you. DH and I were horrified as it was clearly defrauding taxpayers money. I don’t know all the ins and outs of how they got it signed off, but am absolutely certain they only moved the once in 10 years and he boasted about how it was a calculated 6 month deployment to get his kids school fees subsidised. He’s very senior in the MOD now if that makes any difference to the rules. The thing that irks DH and I the most is that they could clearly afford the school fees themselves. They’re already very wealthy in their own right and all they’ve done is take State money from others who actually deserve it. It makes my piss boil when I then have to listen to them slagging off benefit recipients.

Even if you remain based here. Now that's not fair!

Well it is fair

They are just lucky not to have been moved...doesnt mean they can't be relocated

The childcare is for the child, not the wife.

I’m an army wife and totally see where the OP is coming from. The army waste incredible amounts of resources- it is genuinely frightening seeing how much money, time and effort they piss away through really poor planning, inertia and incredibly poor value procurement contracts. They could have the money to do this, if they wanted to.

The salaries are great for young men with no attachments but once you factor in a few kids and a wife (who can’t work because the only jobs available are low-skilled retail-type ones with unsocial hours) it quickly becomes a cyclical trap where they know they’ll be worse off on civvy street and think they can’t afford to leave. Even if the wife can get a job, the amount of guard duties, exercises and other crap DH gets sprung on him at the last minute is ridiculous- if you don’t have someone to help you out with childcare at short notice you can kiss your job goodbye. The uplift in salary (aka the X factor) is supposed to account for those inconveniences, but it’s not really enough to raise a family on without any other input. Unfortunately the salaries, contrasted with the lack of earning potential for the trailing spouse, plus subsidised housing, often ‘traps’ people who would otherwise leave.

We have been incredibly lucky and DH has been in the same place for nine years, but he has sacrificed career advancement for that. That has allowed me to build my own career. He won’t go for promotion because he knows there’s only 25 Sergeant slots here locally and they’d want to move him on promotion. His bosses do not understand why I wouldn’t give it all up to follow him around, only to move again in another three years.

I don’t think the army has moved with the times and it doesn’t reflect modern family life. Rather than fund childcare spots I would prefer they reevaluated and kept people in one place longer so that a) spouses and children could settle properly and b) they wasted less resources moving entire families between bases. Retention levels would also improve, as would their employee’s mental health. But they won’t.

thereallifesaffy are you on the South Coast? That’s where my in laws are and they’ve milked private boarding fees for all its worth. Seems to be the norm amongst their friends too. Maybe each signs off the others claim???