To feel that if you don’t work 9-5 and have no family to help you’re screwed for childcare once your DC start school.

[legoonthetable]

Most people accept that they take a huge financial hit in terms of childcare costs in the pre school years, but do so knowing that they keep their place in the career ladder and once DC are at school the child care would go down. I naively never considered that this wouldn’t be the case for us and am just feeling totally screwed by my lack of choices, despite a good well paid job. And I know I’m far from alone. I work shifts which include 8am starts, midnight finishes and nights. There is no flexibility with start times and I rarely leave on time. DH works 14 + hr days leaving at 7 and rarely home before 7 + logging on again form home. His company is not family friendly and atm moving jobs isn't an option. He has to be at his desk by 8am. School wrap around care is from 7.30am-6pm. Its simply not possible to drop DC at breakfast club and be at work by 8 and we often have an hour at the other end that we also often can’t cover. We had the same nanny for 6 years and agreed to keep her on once youngest DC started school mostly for continuity. She agreed to do a tiny amount of general housekeeping in the 6 hours a day she was child free. She refused to clean, which I didn’t think was unreasonable; she’s a nanny, not a cleaner. Without going into details it pretty quickly became clear that whilst she was absolutely brilliant for our pre school DC doing the school run and holiday childcare for older children wasn’t her thing. We made her redundant and we’ve been struggling along abusing using friends, neighbours, and random paid help(no family close enough to help regularly)since. I have a friend in a similar position (totally different field of work). She employs a nanny-housekeeper. And whilst she loves coming home to a tidy house and a cooked meal, she doesn’t think her employee is that great with her DC. And I’ve heard many others say you either have someone who keeps the house going or someone who is brilliant with DC but its rare to get one person who is brilliant at both. My choices now are either to employ a nanny- housekeeper and accept that most of my salary will essentially go towards paying someone to do very little for 6 hours a day while I work my bollocks off for the next 13 years or give up work…….because if the financial gain is minimal (despite doing a fulfilling job that I mostly enjoy)there really seems no point. I’m not expecting anyone to come up with some magical solution…..I think we’ve been through every possible option, I’d just like some solidarity with people in the same position.Tonight I'm really angry about it.

That is sad, but did you honestly not consider this when you chose your career / fell pregnant? Lots of people can't do the job they'd love to do and settle for something else for this very reason.

If you work 14 hour days and are not wanting or willing to change this then why would you bother to have children in the first place?

I can’t believe what a hard time you are getting OP! Do people really think that no doctors (or nurses or any shift workers) should have children?

It’s not that you never see your dc, just that the times are unpredictable. I’ve never managed to find childminders who can cater for even a regular length day with a commute included (even 8-6 is hopeless for anyone with a commute) let alone shift work. We as a country are losing out much needed skills and childcare provision needs to change!

No sleepinghooty - I dont think Doctors shouldn't have children, I do however, think that it can't really work if the Doctor is married to someone who also works long hours and can't cover the times a normal childminder can't do, without paying for a full time (possibly live in) childcare option.

The OP doesn't want an au pair, doesn't want a nanny-housekeeper, doesn't want a nanny who does nothing for 6 hours a day, doesn't want to accept that it's not really practical to have 2 long hours jobs in a family unit without paying for another adult to take up the slack. (Or look at boarding schools, which probably be a good solution when their DC gets a little older)

Careers still rely on having a 'wife' at home doing unpaid or relatively low paid labour.

If this were true single childless people would not be able to have careers.

It's the having of children that generates the need for relatively low-paid labour.

I agree with everything you say OP. I was absolutely sold the idea that you could have it all with none of the realities of that. Yes I was naive but as a school child I believed that. Now I know it is a pile of shit that I NEVER say to my children.

I have a career. I could work in the public or private sector but as a single parent I have chosen to work in the public sector. Less money but flexible working. I still have enough money to get by but I don’t have the big holidays or new cars. I still have had to use childcare but it does get easier in secondary school as they can let themselves in and out. Women can have a career, just like men, but we are the main child carers and we are prepared to sacrifice our careers, earning potential and pensions for family life. Men could make these choices but they don’t request flexible working and they don’t ask for family friendly policies in the companies they work for. Lots of women combine careers with families - it is ultimately a choice. Just like lots of men don’t choose to work family friendly hours. Choice.

If this were true single childless people would not be able to have careers

?

They can because they don’t need anyone else to cover childcare.

Yeah I don't really get your point OP. Are you annoyed that your work can't be more flexible? Or that people aren't willing to look after your kids when you want them to?

Surely it's something you considered before having kids? If you both work shifts / long hours, why would them going to school help you?

You can't have everything without making compromises. You either need to throw money at the problem or one of you needs to cut down / find a new job / career.

Also, if you earn so much I don't understand why it's such a big deal to pay a nanny?

imamearcat I earn enough to pay a nanny. That doesn't mean that I'm happy to give away pay someone else 2/3 of my salary for the next 13 or so years.

Yeah I don't really get your point OP. Are you annoyed that your work can't be more flexible? Or that people aren't willing to look after your kids when you want them to? I'm annoyed that I was sold the "you can have it all" lie and that there is STILL a constant stream of news and comment about how we don't have enough women in senior positions across all walks of life and why this must change. Its never going to change with the current set up.

Surely it's something you considered before having kids? If you both work shifts / long hours, why would them going to school help you? I think we thought that we'd be able to manage with school wrap around care. Its just not worked out that way. We wanted kids. We both had well established careers when we met. I'm not sure "so which of us is going to jack in our career/take a whacking great pay cut to be a stay at home parent" is a line that comes up often when you are dating someone.

My point is why are we teaching girls to aim for the stars? The tiny number that actually reach the stars realise that they are surrounded by so much space dust that the stars have lost their sparkle and the majority never actually get to the stars, they either fall back to earth with a bump or end up sitting on some grotty meteorite and feeling like they've failed.

The depressing bit is that almost all the posters on here have either admitted that they gave up work and became a SAHM or changed their hours or job, usually with an associated pay cut to "make it work". Doing anything "to make it work" doesn't sound like you are actually enjoying it.....you are sticking it out because you need the money/sanity of getting out of the house. And the SAHMs just realise that the satisfaction and/or money from their jobs doesn't compensate for the cost and hassle of childcare.

And this WHY are BOYS schools not telling boys that they cannot work 14 hrs per day and be an adequate father???!!!!

Until there is a monumental shift in attitude, not just to flexible working for women, but flexible working across the board AND the role that men play in families, women (and their children) are just screwed.

The issue isn’t about being a woman.

It’s about having a job which is incompatible with family life. Do you want your children to be in childcare more than they see you.....?

Op I get you.
Completely.
I gave up a 23 year career, top of my game to switch to something that allowed 90% home/ family time for me and paid well.
Yes, it was professional suicide.

However my children were long awaited and desperately fought for having endured infertility and then multiple miscarriages.
I just couldn’t contemplate paying someone 80% of my pay to care for my children full time. I wanted them all to myself. I wanted to be with them.

Now I’m clawing my way back up. My confidence is nil, my self worth professionally is zero but I’ll get there.
I do get why you are frustrated and annoyed. It’s hard, so hard.

I didn't give up work or change my job. I work 3 days but could work FT, or not at I suppose. Or my husband could think about working different hours. I don't really feel as restricted as you have, I've been able to do what I want.

Maybe it's just your profession? Sounds like you are probably a doctor or similar? I'm sure you are intelligent person so I'm not sure why you've not thought about things in advance a bit more. I don't think it's a feminist issue here, I think you are just a bit unrealistic in your expectations.

I dunno OP I think there’s a weird attitude when it comes to kids. If you get a new job, hobby, relationship ppl seem to accept easily that these things will change there lives. But people expect to have kids and change nothing.

It is worth formally applying for flexible working. Nothing ventured etc.

The issue isn’t about being a woman.It’s about having a job which is incompatible with family life. Do you want your children to be in childcare more than they see you.....?

I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous comment. Off the top of my head the following jobs aren't family friendly, and are only 'compatible with family life' because women beg negotiate hard to make them so........nursing, doctoring, being a postwoman, anything in retail (because you have to spend all or part of most or every weekend working), a solicitor/anything in law, a vet, anything in the financial world (including the receptionist), a pilot, an air steward, being in the forces, being an MP, being a nanny, anything in hospitality, farming (although at least you are based at home), any job that requires regular travel or overnight stays. The only standard jobs that are compatible with family life are teaching (and I bet there a quite a few teachers who would beg to differ) and anything else you can find within a fifteen minute drive from DC's school that want to employ you from 9-3 in term time only.....so serving lunch in the local pub or coffee shop or being the school dinner lady.

Just to go against your last post, me and my dh made changes to our work and both feel hugely better for it. We stayed in the same jobs but moved offices and both went flexible (I do 4 days in 3, he does 5 in 4). Being part time has made me hugely more assertive and productive and as such I have a good reputation and was head hunted for my current rule.

Going part time has been the making of me. If I’d stayed full time and always ‘just done 30 mins more’ I, personally, would have stagnated.

good for you under ...I'm genuinely pleased for you. We do know that something has to give, we just aren't quite decided on what its going to be, and when you take that plunge you just don't know how its going to work out. I'm really glad its worked for you.

I feel like I was told I could 'have it all' as a young adult but once my kids came along it was me that made all the sacrifices

I am as qualified as DH but his job pays more because he is in a 'science' whereas I am in a 'people' type job.

The discrimination starts way back with job/career choices & then once we have kids. I had no idea how having kids meant such restrictions on EVERY other aspect of my life.

My family will not help with child care either.

My youngest is off to Secondary school next year so I will start my career again then

I hear your frustration op!

I would say that my children have benefited from my care as a highly qualified & intelligent women! It is my career has suffered but I guess people are more important than jobs

@legoonthetable i disagree with your list. I work in an office that does flexi time.means i canstart and finish wheni want.

So i drop my dd to nursery at 7:30 and start at 8,then finish at 4 to pick her up at 4:30.
When she starts primary school i will start work at 9:30, and my partner will do pick ups. Meanswe both still work 40hrs a week and easily sorted.

You don't just need a job that is 9-3

OP what I hope to tell my daughter is that she can have it all, but not all at the same time. I'm sorry if that sounds trite. Sometimes career takes priority. Sometimes family. It's not "juggling" for me, it's looking at the holistic picture of everyone's needs, wants, aptitudes in the family and applying resources accordingly.

For us, if it interests you, that meant me looking ahead to having DC and getting out of my City job and into a self-employed and fully flexible role, bolstered by income from a BTL portfolio. DH works FT but with some flexibility. I work around DD, with 1.5 days of childcare for her. I hope to continue with this when she and any siblings go to school. DH gets to carry on in a job he loves. I get to carry on in a job I love, without missing out on time with DD. It works for us, though it's an unusual setup. (And FWIW we could afford a nanny/for me not to work/for DH to work less... this setup reflects our "best deal").

We do know that something has to give, we just aren't quite decided on what its going to be,

I think this is the crux of it really. If I were you I'd think creatively - ad on a local FB page looking for someone to do mornings only? Childminder in afternoon? Resigning yourself to trying a nanny for a year, and finding someone who can take on a housekeeper type role too? Considering whether either of you want your careers to give a bit?

I'm sorry, but this is a ridiculous comment

Why? You work crazy shifts and complain about lack of childcare options. Your job means that you cannot get the balance right, so change the job instead of expecting childcare to adapt.

I don’t mean to be argumentative, I’m just trying to say it’s not all doom and gloom. I’ve certainly has my fair share of ‘this is adulthood?!’ Moments.

The most critical word in your last post is ‘we’. I would feel as I do if I was the only one who was making changes/making things work!

Would not feel as I do...