To feel that if you don’t work 9-5 and have no family to help you’re screwed for childcare once your DC start school.

[legoonthetable]

Most people accept that they take a huge financial hit in terms of childcare costs in the pre school years, but do so knowing that they keep their place in the career ladder and once DC are at school the child care would go down. I naively never considered that this wouldn’t be the case for us and am just feeling totally screwed by my lack of choices, despite a good well paid job. And I know I’m far from alone. I work shifts which include 8am starts, midnight finishes and nights. There is no flexibility with start times and I rarely leave on time. DH works 14 + hr days leaving at 7 and rarely home before 7 + logging on again form home. His company is not family friendly and atm moving jobs isn't an option. He has to be at his desk by 8am. School wrap around care is from 7.30am-6pm. Its simply not possible to drop DC at breakfast club and be at work by 8 and we often have an hour at the other end that we also often can’t cover. We had the same nanny for 6 years and agreed to keep her on once youngest DC started school mostly for continuity. She agreed to do a tiny amount of general housekeeping in the 6 hours a day she was child free. She refused to clean, which I didn’t think was unreasonable; she’s a nanny, not a cleaner. Without going into details it pretty quickly became clear that whilst she was absolutely brilliant for our pre school DC doing the school run and holiday childcare for older children wasn’t her thing. We made her redundant and we’ve been struggling along abusing using friends, neighbours, and random paid help(no family close enough to help regularly)since. I have a friend in a similar position (totally different field of work). She employs a nanny-housekeeper. And whilst she loves coming home to a tidy house and a cooked meal, she doesn’t think her employee is that great with her DC. And I’ve heard many others say you either have someone who keeps the house going or someone who is brilliant with DC but its rare to get one person who is brilliant at both. My choices now are either to employ a nanny- housekeeper and accept that most of my salary will essentially go towards paying someone to do very little for 6 hours a day while I work my bollocks off for the next 13 years or give up work…….because if the financial gain is minimal (despite doing a fulfilling job that I mostly enjoy)there really seems no point. I’m not expecting anyone to come up with some magical solution…..I think we’ve been through every possible option, I’d just like some solidarity with people in the same position.Tonight I'm really angry about it.

the reality of being a mother), is that once you have children the answer seems to be change your job, or hire someone else to look after them.

I’m not being funny but what did you expect? That nothing would change?

I’ve been lucky in terms of having jobs that have been flexible and part time which I know is unusual within my profession BUT the trade off I have is that I haven’t progressed as much as I’d like. I’m not sure “having it all” is possible!

dreamingofsun: but it does get much easier once they are at secondary school.

It does get easier from a logistical point of view as they can get themselves to school and left at home by themselves for short periods. There is no longer any need for childcare. It is life changing.

I don’t work 9-5. Not does my DH. I don’t know many people who do. I don’t have family to help. I have school aged children.

I am not screwed for childcare. We arrange our family life and work commitments around what is possible to do, and reassess it regularly. When I work evenings and weekends, DH does not. And vice versa.

Where are you based?

You need a “me”. I’m a self employed nanny who charges by the hour, and I do cover 24/7. So I’d slot in with your shifts, be available for any emergencies, chuck in the odd load of laundry but mainly deal with the kids - dropoffs, pickups, meals, clubs.

Ofsted registered qualified self employed nanny. We are few and far between but we DO exist

Ilove out of curiosity, as a 24/7 nanny, how are you able to drop everything to cater for your employer's family. Do you have grown up children and possibly live in their home. Is there a particularly profile of person who can/would do this?

how are you able to drop everything to cater for your employer's family and possibly live in their home ....

Au pair. Childminder. Student who wants to do an hour each afternoon. Advertise on care.com and the like to see if there's anyone out there that could help.

This is why families have au pairs isn't it?

Incidentally, I find my teenagers need me more than ever. Sure, I don't have to worry about them getting home and letting themselves into the house. But they hate being alone for hours and really need us to be available for emotional support, homework support and just generally being there.

I don’t think it is. I don’t blame just the school, I blame society at large. Girls were and are told they can be anything.

They can be as long as they insist that their DH does their share of childcare/housework/mental load. So many women including you seem to think that their DHs career is more important and often the reason given is that they earn more which is ironic as often they wouldn't earn more if they had done their fair share of childcare and mental load in the first place.

An Au Pair is only possible if you have a spare room, though. Lots of families just don't have the space to have someone living in their home full-time.

I purposely chose a job with flexible working, it pays less than my previous job and I don’t find it as engaging; but it’s a compromise which works and it is still a good career. I know not everyone has this option, but perhaps there are jobs that haven’t been considered before that could offer both a career and the required flexibility?

Do you live in a student town? One of my friends is a nurse, so works 12hr+ shifts and had problems finding a childminder/nanny for her hours. So someone suggested recruiting local students who could cover childcare - there are 2 of them and they work out a rota between them of who can work when. On one occasion one was ill, the other had exams so they asked if an extra friend of theirs could do that weeks childcare. It works brilliantly for her. Or if there is no uni near you try a local colleges childcare department - the hours would fit around their study plus they would gain practical experience for their CV.

I've had au pairs, the trick is to be really really picky in your criteria and selection process but by now we've pretty much nailed it.

I agree that we can't have it all, it's a complete myth

Echoing people above—my advice to younger women is to find a niche if you can. And turn it into self-employment. I specialised in writing and editing for very dry professional services companies, actuaries, etc. Often quite technical subjects. When I was pregnant I said I wanted to go self employed, and because I had made myself very useful I could. I worked about 2.5-3 days a week while my children were small.

Obviously doesn’t work in all sectors and for all women. Point is you need to start thinking strategically when you are still in your twenties.

Not much help to OP in the meantime. It’s tough.

I don’t think it is. I don’t blame just the school, I blame society at large. Girls were and are told they can be anything.
They can be anything but they can’t be everything.
You can have a very pressurised job with long hours but you will have to outsource a lot of the childcare.
You can spend a lot of time with your kids but you need a job that’s flexible to do so.
You can choose to have no kids at all.
Men have the same choices but they don’t have the societal pressure and shame heaped upon them if they choose to persue their careers over family time.

Yes , we were encouraged at school ( in the 60’s ) to believe we could be ambitious and do anything.
I don’t think we were ever naive enough to think that meant we could do EVERYTHING.
That’s why children got sent off to boarding school.
I do find it unreasonable though that men OR women are expected to work crazy 14 hour days. But if you believe life is only about work maybe it doesn’t bother you so much. But if that’s the case why would you want children ?

I have daughters and I certainly teach them that they can have it all. I do say that they either shouldn't have children or if they do they should have a partner who will do at least equal amounts of childcare and possibly more. If they meet anyone who says that they wouldn't consider going part time, then that probably won't be a good person to marry if they want a career too.

@NataliaOsipova once you are senior enough and in the right industry, you can. i leave the office at 4:30 the latest, spend time with kids, work 7:30 to 9:30 pm. i had my kids at 35 and 39, so not super late either. but i engineered it really carefully, and i also make sure i stand up for myself . a lot of office based men who “can’t possibly leave at 4:30” don’t want to leave at 4:30. my re as relatively senior manager is to make sure everybody in my tream can and will do it (i just spend quite a bit if time to convince a dad to be to go on paternity leave for 2 months)

Families can cope with 1 parent with non-family friendly hours job, but not 2, unless there's a 3rd adult in the house - which you'll have to pay for. Woman can do anything and be anything, same as men, but the assumption is that men have another adult sorting it for them, a wife or paid help. Your problem is you assumed that some how it could be juggled between the 2 parents. It can't.

Your best option is an au pair, even if the last one wasn't very good.

Alternatively, look for 2 part time nannies, one for mornings, one for after school, particularly if you have had problems getting someone happy to do full time hours.

The other option is weekly boarding schools. I know couples in your position who decided boarding school in the week was better for their child's well-being that long days in childcare, or being left with nannies so didn't see their parents many days anyway. Many boarding schools do flexible boarding, so only boarding on 2/3 nights a week, that might be best if you don't need the care 5 days a week.

Something has to give. You can't parent in the way you would if your DH had a 9-5 job. You can't parent the way you would if you had a 9-5 job, so look at your real options.

I know this is MUMSnet and you're a woman but the issue in this family is not you and your career. You work 3 days a week and on at least one you finish at 4pm and on at least one you start at midday. That should be totally fine in terms of taking on a fair share of parenting.

WHY are BOYS schools not telling boys that they cannot work 14 hrs per day and be an adequate father???!!!!

For me, the problem with society is that a career and work is put above family life. We see time and time again. A SAHM is looked down on compared to a WOHM. A WOHM can be set up as some sort of martyr for juggling all the balls because they earn money. Earning money and lots of it = great social status.

As a result, employers do not see the value of ensuring that work is more flexible and allow people to balance home and work life.

I would rather we worked to life and not the other way around.

I love being a mother and supporting my children to grow and develop. I also enjoy working and earning money. What I did not enjoy is killing myself to earn money, having to work, get home, put the kids to bed and work some more until I got to bed.

At a shrewd guess what we have here is Dr married to lawyer? Lawyer and accountant here , I only have boys and have often thought that I would have struggled to tell girls that could have it all . For what it’s worth I don’t tell my boys that either but they have all watched me juggling all of their lives .

I don’t live in. I don’t have an employer - I’m SELF EMPLOYED. I pick my families, I choose who I work with.

In this situation Mum would give me her shifts in advance, and I’d slot them into my rota, and fix/work out pickups and drop off. Some time would be spent there in their house, some time would be out and about.

It works - really, really well. Been doin it for 3 years now, and I’m always in demand. Currently have 7 families I work with, all with different needs.

We have worked out our careers around our dc. Sorry to sound naive but I literally can't understand people who don't.

I have not progressed because I want to make sure I'm around for my dc when they need me. And sorry to tell you that my oldest is 14 and I am needing more flexibility than I ever have. When she is emotional about any issues she needs me not a nanny, after school club or a grandparent. Therefore I work around school hours and can buy extra holiday to make sure I'm off mostly over school holidays.

Will I look back and regret my career choice? Doubtful. And I would hate to look back and think I wasn't there for my dc when they needed me.

I had a couple of great nanny housekeepers and it worked really well although I could do the morning drop off so they started at lunchtime and cleaned until pick up and then looked after DC until I got home. One also cooked a big enough meal for the children that DH and I could eat the left overs for supper and stayed on for about an hour after I got back to do the ironing which meant that she could keep an eye on one DC for 20 minutes whilst I read and did spellings with the other and then swapped them over. Both had teenagers of their own and enjoyed being able to spend time with younger children. In the holidays the teenagers did some tag teaming - eg they'd take the DC to a local stay and play scheme and stay with them whilst their mum did the housework etc. My DC loved this bit of the arrangement the best! So don't dismiss a nanny housekeeper but look carefully at who you choose.

Do you have space for an annex? Live-in housekeepers seem to be easier to find and you pay them less in general. As absurd as it sounds the only way I could figure out how to work and have kids was for us to move to a much cheaper part of the country and have live-in help.